Too late, surely you didn't say something like this.
Just went on two civie dates over the weekend and they were again, so terribly boring -- nothing like the excitement of being with a new (or better yet, repeat) client, whom you know a bit, already like, are interested in, and know it will at least be exciting physically, if nothing else..... And if we've already met, and it's the second or twentieth time, even better.... as we get more and more intimate and feel closer and closer, furthering the experience, it gets steamier, more intimate, and so much better....
Have zero interest in wasting my time with boring civie dates for the moment.... When we finally have sex after several boring dates, find they're terrible in bed! I'm quite good at spotting potential, but these civie guys have very little likelihood of ever being good in the sack. Suppose they don't have the same sex drive as the hobbiests I've met and adored. You guys are great!!
So, my thanks to all of you for being so fabulously into it and fun....
I may be a hobbyist, but I am also a "civvie" who is currently in the process of dating another civvie, and have dated civvies before.
It is comparing apples to fried chicken to compare hobbyists and civvie men, or providers and civvie women. Hobbyists can come in, slap their $ down, and know what they are going to get, be very comfortable and excited about it, save their energy for it (or take pills, or whatever), and then know that it is just for their gratification and then they can leave. In a civvie situation, you have a LOT more to think about. Additonally, hobbyists are often successful, confident, and financially secure, and civvies may still be looking to find their niche in life.
I could list other points, too, but it really shouldn't be necessary.
Because I've already made this topic and I got blasted!!! (months ago ) .. So I'm going to sit here and learn my lesson well and not reply..
So pretend you didnt read this ok 
*wink*
Too late, surely you didn't say something like this.
But who am I to say? I don't go out on dates much. I have gone out a few times with girls who were looking for something (green card, transportation, money she thought I had, shoes and a manicure/pedicure). Yes, when I go see my girls I know what I'm going to get and always get it. They know what they are doing. I don't know about civvies. I haven't tried one yet, in part by my fault but that was a long, long time ago. I'm a hobbyist but not at the TER level yet. Thanks to Mr. Ed and other members of TER I had a taste of it. Thanks, Karrie and Netmichelle. But anyways I'm not successful, or financially secured yet. But I'm still looking for niche in life. I might never find it but I'm looking.
Providers are wonderful and they are not a waste of time, money and energy. They are not hard to get and scared of their body or mine. They are sexually hot and understand and see things from a different perspective. Just like me.
-- Modified on 2/28/2005 5:41:42 PM
After reading MSD's and the other woman's message I see that they are right and the original poster is wrong, maybe.
We are talking about daters and people with family who shouldn't think that their client and provider is better than a civvie. They shouldn't think this way because it's not. But then again there are others who might think that way. Not providers because if they were that way they wouldn't be providers in the first place. I mean they look ok even if they are not ok. Looks are an important part, let's face it. So, what I'm saying that out there there are clients that are whatever you call them let it be nerds, geeks or whatever that would think that a provider is better than a civvie.
Now I got it right. She shouldn't think that way. But certain customers could. Right? Did I get it right?
awww Robert, its just a matter of opinion.. there is no right or wrong... just do what I do.. act like a big mouth and "think" you are always right ! LOL!
I suggest Robertini and Ciara go out on a civvie date and test this out. 
Buffalo has a very nice waterfall nearby and, from my ancient memories, a lot of wax museums there where one could go on a very nice date and eat a lot of chicken wings...as long as Ciara does not encourage Robertini to believe he could survive the falls in a rowboat!
-- Modified on 3/1/2005 1:42:38 PM
I grew up in Buffalo, and while I don't miss much about living there, the food was wonderful. I'm headed there over the Memorial Day weekend for a family gathering. Assuming I can travel alone, I'll buy Ciara a meal anywhere in town!!
I already know what I want for dessert.
Lexy, Great seeing you at the Yacht Club the other night. You look terrific!
We are not in the L.A. board. Now you are making myself known as the loser I am in the national board too. aaaahhhhhhh! 
I'm in my late 30s, I haven't had a girlfriend in seven years, and all I really want to do at this stage in my life is get laid or get off. Compare and contrast- A) an awkward encounter with someone you have nothing to say to and can't wait to get away from (aka civvie date hell) OR
B) an hour of hot lustful heaven with your fave provider, or a lap dance or two with your fave stripper, caressing her smooth your flesh as she gyrates around yr aroused member.
Here's the thing, I HAVE been in love. Being love is amazing. If you have not experienced real romantic love with a woman (as in loving her and being loved back tenfold) then you haven't lived.
But it is rare as a hen's tooth- and guess what, you have to wait for it.
In the meantime, GET YOUR KICKS WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!!!!!
e(eeks)
From reading everyone's post, I get the feeling that much of the reason why some of the people who have posted despise dating is because they go into it with the wrong attitude. When you go into a date with an attitude like that, of course it's bound to fail. I'm not criticizing you or any of the others, but just trying to point out that there are aspects of dating that are fun also. Some of the fun may be the "challenge" of getting laid when it's not always a sure thing. It's also nice to know that a woman is not out with you because you're paying her to be with you. Some of these providers that we "date" would not give some of us a chance at all if we were not paying for their time. But hobbying has it's exciting aspects too though, and I wouldn't be doing it if it didn't, so I guess it all balances out.
To be an authority on this subject and refute what the original poster said, don't YOU have to be experienced dating hobbyists and civvie guys? You have many opinions as I have read them for many months, but in this case, I would have to think that a person who actually dates the MEN being discussed would have a much more educated opinion. To disagree for disagreement sake is a waste of energy. Accept this provider's praise and be happy about it. Geez
-- Modified on 3/2/2005 4:14:25 PM
...as civie girls always get so melodramatic when I tell them I'm married.
Providers just don't care. Love ya, ladies!
even wealth... all the things that people could look for in a date, or a relationship... are not inherent, nor exclusive, to any one race, age, religion, job, or civvie/non civvie status.
Boring people are boring, whether they are paying/being paid to have sex with you later, or not. But what do I know? I'm just a boring civvie :-P
what is important. One can go on 100 civie dates and shag a few times and find it, usually, not great sex. And the guy/other person usually seems less and less interesting, particularly with their sub-par sex....
Or, you can exchange emails, get to know one another a bit, and have the best time you both ever dreamed of.... whether an hour, multi-hour, o/night, or on a trip. Far more pleasurable times had this way.....
And if the gentleman is married, no problem..... we're paid to please, entertain, and then go away!!
I think I could much more easily find someone who was interesting to me for an hour, or two... even four...than interesting for months, years, or a lifetime. Those people are few and far between. I've had experience where sex was expected, and was a main objective, and yes, it's fun. In the right situation, I could see myself prefering that type of experience for a period of time.
If I were a provider, my expectations would be different for a civvie date, and a business date. Not more, or less, just different. But I'm pretty picky anyway.
Civvies are just Free (all pun's intended)
For a civie date, a civie guy has no idea what will transpire that evening. Well, perhaps some, but no real certainty. Compare this with an appointment with a provider. A 99% chance there will be sex within the hour. How can you compare the two scenarios? This stated, I do wish there were better rates out there for multiple hour dinner 'dates' which included our treat to a nice restaurant. I do love conversation leading up to the main event.
MSD told me off good once when I started that thread ! And wiser words could've never been spoken..
I totally appreciated him kicking me in my ass to think differently. If you were to spend the hours, days, months,years with a hobbyist/provider .. I bet they arent all that charming as the first hour or three you first met them ..
I get to know apartment girls for months and even years ( I still know 3 of them for 5 or more years ) I still as charming as the first time. On purpose because they are the only ones I know? If that's the case I don't do in purposedly on purpose.
I agree with everybody. A hobby is a hobby and nothing more. A hobby is a hobby for me too. But if you are not lucky (for whatever reason, looks, height, weirdness, etc. maybe) then is ok to see the alternative as better than the non-existent reality.
their regulars after a few dates. Do they prefer new clients over their regulars because of the boredom factor?
...mine get bored during the initial phone call.
it needs kissing.
I have little to show you, Ciara...and your original feelings were good and strong for the business, so it is not only understandable but also commendable.
...am perpetually charming... in a boorishly unrefined yet childish sort of way.
Date or appointment, all you ladies get to "experience" the same dweeb.
Thanks, I guess, but that's not exactly fair, you're comparing apple's to orange's. When any of us here are seeing a provider we're there for a reason and both parties know what it is, hopefully. In the real world who the hell know's for sure why the woman is going out with you, sometime's it ain't too clear. Signal's women supposedly give to men aren't alway interpeted the right way, if at all. Aggressive women shine in situation's like this, while aggressive guy's are shown the door more time's than not. There are just too many damn game's played in conventional dating. Plus on a conventional date, your hopefully, trying to establish some kind of a meaningful, lasting relationship. Here, it is what it is, a brief moment of passion, no string's attached. A lot of women are turned off by a guy coming on too strong while some aren't. On a conventional date, if it's a woman I'm really interested in, I'd like to get an idea of where she's coming from, where we stand, before pouncing. I've probably missed a few opportunities by snoozing, but oh well, my loss is just as much their loss. If they don't like me the way I am, they did right by moving on. I've got to tell you though, after doing this fairly regularly I'm beginning to think you're right. Screw all the regular dating crap, go to eros and have fun. The only downfall is, I can't afford regular overnighter's and it would sure as hell be great to spend more than an hour or two or three with some of the women. Actually even an hour at a time get's pretty expensive and most of the time we're lucky to get a true GFE feeling about a visit anyway. I haven't had one in a while that's for sure. I saw two provider's this last weekend, $600+, one I want to repeat with before she leave's,$300+. Beside's those two there are two other traveller's I'd like to see this week as well, another $600+. I can't keep this crap up. Since you like us so much how about some really reduced overnight rate's. I bet you'll get all the action you could want and then some. Not a flame just an explanantion.
This is the funniest thread I've read in ages. Get serious. A good fuck is a good fuck. That's why we're hobbyists, we want the sexual drama not the emotional yo yo drama. Sometimes in a blue moon, you find a gem provider or client. When you do enjoy, it's rare. Plain and simple.
I've had my own post as to bad dates I have had and friends have had. Our society's current dating culture has just soured for many people. Even saying this, I might have to turn back to civilian dating at least partially, since I just don't have the income to support the hobby as my sole source of sex and companionship. I hope when I do that things I've learned here make the experience better.
Thank you for your post telling me that it often works as well on the provider side of it.
who the hell cares about my opinion.
I think you have been honest with your feelings and should takecare of yourself.
Now on the other side of the coin, maybe if you were as honest with them as you were with us you might find what you are looking for. Could it be, your not being honest, that has left you feeling less than great with these two guys? Think about it...
The whole time he is out with you he is thinking thousands of thoughts, some may be exactly as yours, but unless they are expressed, you both sit there bored because you wish you were being expressed.
Lets say you express yourself and he turns out not to be on the same wave lenght, what have you lost? Maybe three more dates until you have bad sex and then get dumped because he sucks in bed and blames you. lol
Sounds like fun to me.
Take it from this civvie, a beautiful, intelligent woman who tells me what is on her mind and what she is into is about the greatest gift I could ever recieve.
Good luck, and have fun
When I read the original post I thought something on a similar theme. I had to wonder at the potential irony of perhaps the date or dates both being secret hobbyists, and both parties sitting on their hands, bored out of their skulls, wishing they were hobbying instead. LOL!
Seriously, though, you're right in that I think part of the problem might be that AP's mind is elsewhere, so she's not concentrating on what's important so far as civilian dating is concerned - ie formulating a relationship and not just fuelling a fantasy. After all, her hobbying clients are also civilians - indeed we're all civilians - aren't we??
Aphra
I think she is just justifying her profession.
I'm sure she could find the exact same experience in the civie world if that is what she were really looking for. Not too hard to find an anonymous guy willing to f*ck you for free and then leave.
Of course, that doesn't pay the bills.
I disagree completely.
If you're not already attracted to the person in the first place (i.e think he's charming, witty, fun) then what are you doing wasting your time (and his) going out on a date?
The few boring dates in my life were the "obligation" dates where I went out with the friend of a friend for some reason. But whenever the dates are my choice, they're great--some better than others, of course--because I'd only go out if we had some chemistry between us. Otherwise, what's the point?
As far as the sex goes, it's true not every man is a star (civvie or client). The great thing about civvie sex though is the guy is open to improving his skills because he genuinely likes you. (I'm talking the cases where a relationship has developed, not a one night stand.)
I like the emotional involvement and intensity of civilian dating---seeing clients is fun (and often the sex is dynamite), but it's nowhere near as satisfying as civilian encounters.
When you choose something without reasons, you are far more likely to have some fun.
It's like getting lost, you can choose it and see it as an adventure or as most of us do consider the reasons and it becomes a burden. Choose being lost and then create something out of it.
so when you choose to go out, it can be great. "The great thing about civvie sex though is the guy is open to improving his skills because he genuinely likes you."
or...
"I'm quite good at spotting potential" Wow I would hate to be the guy who she decided has no potential. I cant imagine having a chance, no matter how skilled I was.
This was a fun topic!
might just be shy, nervous, less experienced in dating; and once I get to know him better, he could turn out to be fascinating and spectacular. Have actually found that many men who appear to be "charming, witty, fun" with the first impression, are usually not so once you get to know them, and find they act that way to counter their being of less character.
How do you compare time with civies vs Hobbyist/Providers?
Maybe I'm a little different but have never had a bad civie date. I'm not expecting sex, sometimes it happens and some times it dont, sometimes there's a second date , other times I didnt feel we clicked so didnt pursue it any further.I never looked at it as watsed time or money, it was just exploring the possibilities of making a new friend.Sex in itself was not the reason I asker her out to begin with so why expect it to happen. The one thing I will say is I have never been bored on a date and usually have a pretty good time. Maybe because its new company, brings out new conversation, interests and kinda fun to just kick back and see what happens. Maybe people get their expectations too high and as a result its bound to disapoint them. Being more selective may also help your dating experiences. I'm a fussy pain in the ass.lol
If anything I would expect to be more diaspointed with a provider since expectations would be higher , I'm paying for it and she may not live up to reviews , pictures or reputation. The nice part about the provider is we both know why I'm there, there's going to be sex and how much can ya really be dispointed getting layed? lol
Pluses and Minus's to both . ones real if it happens the other is fantasy. One is business the other is recreation. A combination of both may just be the answer
Just walk into any bar and yell out "who wants to f*ck me now".
You'll get the same experience that you get from providing, you just won't be forced to take money for it.