The mainstream media bombards us constantly with the message that all the sexual practices you mentioned, with the exception of anal sex, are 'normal' baseline behaviour. Does your wife live in a cave in the Himalayas or what?

Also, if she's always been like this, why did you marry her?  It sounds like she's got some serious problems about acknowledging her sexuality.  Was she sexually abused/assaulted?  Regardless, she needs counselling and unfortunately it sounds like you're going to have to force her go.

Same issues, same no win circular logic.
DTB is the only rational answer "Dump The Bitch"
Seriously friend I have experienced this kind of condescending, self-righteous, pejorative rhetoric and it only gets worse.
BTW- If you really want to have some fun and learn her worst primal fear. Next time you're having a "friendly discussion" about your sick sexual desires look her straight in the eyes and calmly tell her that her inability to sexually please you leaves you ambivalent to you EVER wanting sex with her again. Mark my words it WILL be a Kodak moment to be sure.

  Cm.

Same boat

Although we talked about our desires and at the first of the marriage, sex was great.  We experimented and she enjoyed most of the things we tried.  Then it went downhill until now we have not had sex in 10 months and with her now being over 350 pounds she has become a turn off.
I look at her and want to throw up.  We have been in counselling for 3 years, but unless she wants to change, it is a waste of time and money.  Would leave the bitch, but she has f-uped our credit so bad that I can not afford to.  
I wonder what is a normal and healthy interest in sex?  I am starting to explore the dom/sub realm with my ATF and have come to realize that society paints those who participate in that as strange, that life style demands much of what has been talked about in the counselling sessions (openness, communication, trust, giving of oneself, etc).  
I have come to realize that there is no such thing as a normal sex life.  Normal is whatever you and your partner define it to be.  Some people are satisfied with hardly any touch, while others are satisfied with what some would consdider extreme acts bordering on cruelity.
Good luck my friend!

It's a shame you've gotten such worthless answers from the board.  You are not abnormal.  In fact, one of the MAIN reasons this hobby thrives is because too many of us are married to your wife (you know what I mean).  Assuming that you don't want to divorce your wife, you need to face the fact that it's your wife that has the problem.  Do not give up on trying to get the both of you in to counselling.  However, you need to realize that it's unlikely that your wife will make any real changes (zero chance if you can't get her into counselling).  Where does that leave you?  Hobbying your ass off and with a lot less guilt or worry than before.  I know this is not a perfect solution, but at least you know that you're very normal and perhaps you can enjoy sex better now.  Good luck.

-- Modified on 7/5/2005 6:28:10 AM

There are a few things missing to draw a complete picture as to what's going on but based on what you said the conclusion is clear.

You either have to make the decision that you are going to hang in the for the "marriages" sake, and keep posing for the photo's at the family picnic's and keep smiling at the neighbors each weekend as you mow the lawn, and keep potraying the "happy family". Now there is one topic you didn't bring up is kids, if there are kids I can somewhat excuse the reason you wouldn't leave and keep up the ruse (that is my situation). However if there are no children then get up an leave right now. Why live your life at all if you are going to live an unhappy unfullfilled existance.

Look I've been through therapy I've been through it all and you know what there is no changing people. Yes if you have communication problems it will help, but is it going to suddenly get your wife to open up her legs and ass for you to start probing, no it's not. That is part of her "programing" as to who she is and what she's open to doing and if you've discussed it and she's called you a "perv" then your are going nowhere my friend.

Your choices; live a half hearted unfullfiled life (which is exactly what I'm doing however I do have children and I feel my sacrifice is for their benefit, and I'm not saying that is correct either, as the matter of fact I'm probably the last person who should be posting advice to you LOL), or suck it up now before you look back on a dozen lost years and move on then.

Good luck to you however I don't see much positive coming out of your situation.

You married my ex-wife????

Sadly, I think many women, brought up by equally repressed mothers, have the same (dare-I-say?) Bible Belt mentality. They are told for forever that sex is wrong before marriage; then when they DO get married, they can't retrain themselves to try it and enjoy it.

Do what I did: find an ex-catholic neighbor who LOVES oral sex...just not with her own spouse.

Your post did not say anything about what it is that your wife wants.   That may be part of the problem.

I realize that I have no standing to criticize because I am also getting the kind of sex that my wife eschews.   Nonetheless, in my 40 years of marriage, I have learned what my wife wants.

First, she wants closeness.   If you gave your wife more closeness, then perhaps she would be more ready to give you what you want.   Not everything, of course.  But perhaps enough to improve your sex life with her dramatically.

There is no way to compare what goes on in the hobby with real life with a real partner.   In my case, I can have sex with magnificent young women, who can excite me much more easily than my wife can.   But sex with a wife is still important.  It is obvious from your post that it is important to you.  I suspect that it is also important to her--but in a different way.

In college, when my boyfriend showed me a porn movie for the first time, I felt threatened by the looks of the porn stars.  

I assumed my boyfriend was comparing my appearance (unfavorably) to those girls, and that he would be thinking of them when we had sex afterwards.

It took me a while to let go of the jealousy.

I recommend that in discussing porn movies, you downplay the physical looks of the actresses. Let your wife know you find her just as sexy as the actresses, and you think of her, not anyone else, when you have sex (even if that's not always true).

Perhaps tell her the sexiest porn movie alive would be a home movie with the two of you.

Most women need reassurance of their continued sexual attraction to their husbands, especially since most women gain a few (or more) pounds as time goes by.

Good luck!

-- Modified on 7/5/2005 12:01:04 PM

if breast touching, fingering, and oral sex make you a lunatic, then I should have been checked into a mental institution a long time ago.

Sorry to say it but it sound's like you suffer from what evidently most of the guy's here suffer from, marrying an incompatible woman. Did she partake in your sexual desire's before you were married? If so, but now it's a no no, I feel sorry for you, your stuck in the ultimate bait and switch. If not, why did you marry her? I don't care how beautiful she was, or what kind of chemistry there seemed, if she wasn't about to let you touch her, what was the point? You actually married a woman that wouldn't let you touch her breast, fingered her vagina, or give and received oral sex? The anal I can do without but the willingness to try new thing's would be nice and seem normal if she is as into you as you are of her. I've alway's felt the main reason so many marriage's fail is because too many people feel like they're doing what they're supposed to do instead of what they actually want. Society, family, religious, etc. pressure's. Once you reach this age, finish school and get a job, you're supposed to get married, natural progression. I remember guy's when I was in my twenties saying how bad they had to get married and start a family, WTF. I alway's thought before you even think of that you better find a woman that you really love who really love's you, common sense. If that never happen's, oh well, you might be lonely sometime's but you won't have a life of misery or a string of expensive and bitter divorce's. Surprisingly a few guy's I've talked to said they married their wive's because she'd serve the purpose, hahaha. That's a disaster not even waiting to happen it's starting out as such. They married a woman that they weren't actually in love with, she was just there and would do. If marriage is so sacred, as so many people like to say, it's a shame more people don't act like it is. Just my never married two cent's.

Nah dude, you're okay, I'm f**ked up because I obviously married her twin.

But I have got my wife to go to counseling - it took her finding a strange text message on my cell phone ("Who is this?"  "A girl I get bj's from because you won't touch me or allow me to touch you."  Honesty is always the best policy even if you have to sleep somewhere else for a few days.)

It's been 12 sessions and it's still a long road to go, but sometimes I get the feeling that she's coming along.  

TER members are not abnormal at all.  Go watch "Kinsey." Guys who sit in strip bars by themselves dolling out thousands of dollars, may be abnormal.  But guys who are seeking release because their wives have closed shop - nah.  

The caveat about counseling is that you really have to look at what you've become - are you spending too much time online, etc?  Are you still sexy?  And as far as being threatened by porn stars, it may be something bigger than just the women in porn.  It may be her entire self image.  Every week our counselor (a woman) continues to press the issue that my wife has to find herself sexy before she can get in touch with the sexual nature she once had.

Hope that helps.  Remember you once loved each other.

and not the relationship part, I think that people are kinda 50/50 that they are either open to things and want fun things or they are shocked and want 'normal' sex like missionary only with the lights off. I know that one time i was talking to an older sister of mine who's married and she was asking me about my sex life (i'm single) and said she didn't understand how I could have sex with someone I didn't LOVE! I was so stunned. Love? What did that have to do with it? So maybe it's that people think that sex is only for lovemaking when you're sharing love and not just sex or fucking which is because it's fun and entertaining etc. You know what i mean?

I think your sexual desires are pretty normal, but I have heard variations on your story from many of my clients.  Depending on the woman's age, I think hormone levels are a major issue in a woman’s declining sexual desire, but the fact that many women won't take hormone replacement therapy is their choice.  I'm not a doctor so I don't have much else to say about that issue.

I have said to many of my clients that if the women, wives, girlfriends, SO's, etc. in the US and all over the world too for that matter, would suddenly decide to have sex with their partners once or twice a week, I would need to find another line of work.  I don't see it happening in a million years so I'm not too concerned about that!  What I don't understand is why so many guys put up with it.  When I was married, it wasn't an option to refuses sex on a regular basis ... I'm not saying I was forced but I would be asked why not, and most of the time my 'why not' would be ignored anyway.  I was told stuff like, 'do you want me to have to go out and find someone else or would you rather I remain a faithful husband?' or, 'we're married, if you won't have sex with me, why should I stay married to you', in an assertive enough manner that I knew he meant what he said.  

If you're an honest, hardworking, decent husband, SO, etc. bringing home your paycheck and supporting your family, doing your best as a partner, then your partner should have sex with you on a relatively frequent basis or you should just get rid of her and not feel guilty about it either!  
Suzanne in San Diego

Ask her first, then try it out. Choose it. Do it her way for a while. Make her feel like she is good enough and her feeling and thoughts are valid.

Just think, none of us know your wife, but I already think she is a prude. Put yourself in her shoes for a second. Imagine having a husband who makes everyone think you are a prude? How often would you want to have sex with that guy?

Hey I get it, but if you think about her first, you MIGHT get what you want more.

You melt ice with heat, not more ice.

Who is normal or not is beside the point.  (My vote is she's frigid.)

Personally, I think she's trying to tell you she doesn't want any part of you, and you need to get used to the idea, and move toward a manageable divorce.

Because a couple that isn't working together is falling apart, you know?   You're sucking hind tit in this relationship, and divorce is the only thing that will change it.

I don't care what you call her, get used to the idea that she will dump you if you don't do it 1st.   So get used to the idea, and manage the divorce as best you can, and get on with your life.

Provider insight: You've already shown your level of respect for her by "airing your dirty laundry" on a forum such as this.
One lovely new friend of mine is married, we are in some kind of "like"...I can look him in the eye, and say, "take what you've learned with me, home". and he can hear about a first date (not in this forum) i was telling him about, and remind me to "let my walls down".
when he said he didn't know how i do what i do, i had to tell him i think the same of him!!
Would you have any fun if you had nothing to complain about....and do you take ANY responsibility for your own approach?!
I've been gifted $200 in a tip, from a super nice man who said "thanks for the touches like i've never received from my wife"...and i'm thinkin' it was the rather tantric approach we took.
But then again, him and I don't have to sit over the checkbook haggling about finances either!!
If you have any same problem again and again, it's usually best to look at your approach and contribution to the problem, no ?!?