I’m guessing different departments do different things so I can only speak for my area.
The days of UC LE vehicles simply being standard cop crown vics and impalas without the PD paint job are long gone. When you see a crown vic with a regular paint job, a spotlight in the A pillar and hideous wheels, it’s far more likely to be a civilian in a car they bought at a surplus auction than a cop.
Around here I see cops driving everything from Camaros and Chargers to a fully blacked out customized pickup with a ten inch lift, or a crap box Ranger sporting a camper shell. Import tuners, family sedans, you name it.
The red and blue lights are across the top of the windshield on the inside, sometimes just on the back of the visors so you are less likely to spot them when not in use. If they’re still hiding them in the grill, they’ve gotten a lot better at it. Also they’re in the rear window as you said.
Honestly the only common denominator is the ridiculously illegal dark tinting (No reason for LE to follow the law amiright?), So you can’t see the extra lights and the separator inside. I think that’s why they hardly ever enforce the tint laws at all anymore. So you can’t just say every car on the freeway with illegal tint is a cop.
They used to have four or more antennas. Now they have maybe one extra but it’s pretty small.
I’m not sure if they use permanent plates around here. That’s an interesting point. But front plates are not required here, and if I’m close enough to see the top right corner of the plate says perm as opposed to an expiration date, it’s probably too late anyways. Good point you brought up though.
This conversation has reminded me of a certain scene from a certain movie.
Found a cheap escort just doing a google search, didn't use this site like a big dummy. I texted the lady and got a reply with the cheap motel and per half hour prices and hours prices. I showed up around back where she told me to go and spotted a cop on the side hiding,
I drove in a circle like I was going to check into the hotel and exited the parking lot. The cop followed me for about 3 miles making every turn I made. Luckily I passed a county line and he turned away immediately.
I assume I'm ok, but I'm sure he recorded my plates. I wonder if I'm going to get a visit??
The only way you can ever be charged with solicitation is if you offer XYZ dollar amount for XYZ sexual acts.
I just do not know how much more I can stress this: do NOT discuss money. do NOT discuss sex acts. It is completely legal in all 50 states for you to pay someone for their time. As long as you did not mention anything sexual in the texts you should be fine.
And this is also probably a good time to remind everyone that if you do ever get arrested say NOTHING. Nada. Zip it.
Don't negotiate. Don't ask if for an extra $50 if you can get a BBBJCIM. Don't risk it!!
You do not want a solicitation charge on your record for your whole family to see.
Money=time ONLY
As always,
Stay sane and stay safe
A cop can do whatever he wants to do and many busts have occurred by the guy just walking in the room. Now will the bust stick? Will the DA prosecute it? Maybe, maybe not, as the cop may lie, but the damage is already done as the clients name will, in all likelihood, be made public. Getting the case tossed out or him "winning" the trial wont matter in most cases as he could still lose everything by the mere public allegation.
Much depends on the state.
And it doesn't take any lying on the part of police. In NY and CT, for instance, all it takes is intent. If a woman has a website with rate info, etc. even with no mention of services, it doesn't take much to charge someone based on him just showing up at the hotel room. And a lady putting the standard line "payment is for my time only" on her website wouldn't mean much. One DC provider I know of pretends to be a yoga instructor on her website and talks about the benefits of yoga. She doesn't show her face and has sexy pictures of herself with her rate info. Would a typical juror think that anyone would pay 600 an hour for yoga lessons??
Probable cause is necessary for an arrest, but that's a very low bar that's easy to meet. Whether the prosecutor's office pursues it or declines is another matter.
Let me push back on one thing. Probable cause is necessary for a "good" arrest. You and I both know there are thousands of cases of all types of crimes that have been tossed bc it was decided in court that probable cause was not met. But that is small consolation to the guy who loses his job, wife, kids, etc over just the arrest. The ultimate outcome of the court room proceedings is meaningless to him as the damage to his rep is already done by the very public accusation.
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Lastly, I really wasn't cop bashing in general. Again, there are bad apples in every profession so of course there have been cops who have lied as to what was said, or not said, in a sting operation that Scarlet alludes too.
...there have been cops who have lied as to what was said, or not said, in a sting operation that Scarlet alludes too.
All of what you said is correct. The kicker is that the vast majority of men that are arrested are just going to pay the fine and try to reassemble their lives. The info I gave *may* prevent someone was getting arrested, but if LE is spending a shit ton on a sting you can bet they are going to arrest as many men as possible for the sting to "look good". They are going to sort out the details later, which is many cases the charges will be dropped. Or better yet they will say they will give you a deal if you plead guilty to whatever lesser charge, pay the fine, and you are off again. I have seen several stings where 15 guys were arrested, no prostitution charges where even filed on any of them, and 3 or 4 that had drug charges, warrants, and illegal fire arms were charged with these offences. And then they can say they were successful with cleaning up the streets! The waste of tax payer dollars and the ruining of lives unnecessarily will continue until all adult consensual sex work is decriminalized.
All of your comments are respectful to me in person or online. I would expect nothing less from you. 
And I really do think your advice was spot on about keeping your mouth shut if arrested and I should have noted that in my response to you. I so appreciate you posting here and for standing up to a few board bullies who want you gone. Thanks again!
THE most important piece of advice given is to STFU - exercise your absolute right to counsel and do not speak to police. You need to provide booking information but that's it.
Look up "don't talk to the police" on YouTube - a video by James Duane, a law professor. Invaluable information. I'd post a link but I'm on a treadmill right now.
Here you go:
There was an operation in Nassau County, Long Island some years ago. A bunch of guys were arrested going into a hotel room, and charged, then their names and photos were released to the media
Many of them had the charges dropped, and eventually the County was forced to change the policy on publishing the names and photos.
But the damage was done and these men were publicly shamed.
The first, always be aware of your surroundings. Having just rushed in and not having been paying attention seems like it would have ended badly here.
But I think the other moral is sometimes you get more than you were paying for -- and not in a good sense of more. Not to say that stings or stakeouts cannout occur at higher priced locations but I suspect 4 star hotel is much more likely to want to quietly usher you out than police running around. Bad look for the other customers and bad press as well. THe cheap motels may actually prefer having some police pressence as they have other, potentially harmful to both facilities and staff, issues that occur.
where the rooms have doors that open onto the parking lot is a bad idea. These are most often used for stings. Hotels (with an "H") will not be as cooperative with LE if they want to set up a sting in a room accessed via an elevator to an upper floor. Dragging some unlucky John in handcuffs down the hallway, into the elevator, and through the lobby is bad for business. However, in a Motel, they will set up the sting with two adjoining rooms and pulling the monger out of the room and directly into a police car is less intrusive on other guests who's expectations are not that high in a motel. If the Hotel elevator doesn't require a key card to operate, where the provider must come down and meet you first before taking you up to the room, don't go through with it. If anything seems suspicious, you can bail out in the lobby and leave. The same thing applies to an outcall where YOU are hosting. When you have to go down and meet her, you have one last chance to bail if she's not the girl in her website photos.
Hello CDL,
I very much agree with the hotel vs. motel distinction.
My experience, and it may be mine only, is that if you and the provider behave discretely in a 3+ star hotel you'll be OK. Generally, this means being quiet and not attracting attention.
Still, be on guard for anything suspicious.
I posit further that hotels know what is going on and, within reason, do not mind revenues generated by the world's oldest profession! To wit, I live in a major coastal city and have been to a 4 star hotel with an active trade. If you're there on a Friday afternoon, you'll witness the "changing of the guard" as a bevy of young, attractive women roll their suitcases out and catch rideshares to the airport.
When I hear about stings, they are always in God-forsaken motels in less prosperous parts of town. Similarly, I've read about sex trade operators renting a dozen apartments in a residential area. It doesn't take long for the neighbors to alert the police, triggering a sting.
Just my $0.02!
I don't remember the stories (fiction short stories; fiction short stories in magazines; maybe even a movie scene?) but I have "seen" both versions that go something like this:
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Guy being detained / arrested: "I wasn't looking to have sex with you. I knew you were a cop."
Escort Decoy Cop: "How did you know?"
Guy: "You're too beautiful to be a real escort."
(Cue the violins as a love story ensues.)
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Guy being detained / arrested: "I wasn't looking to have sex with you. I knew you were a cop."
Escort Decoy Cop: "How did you know?"
Guy: "You're too ugly to be a real escort."
(Cut away to hospital emergency room with Guy getting stitched up from accidentally falling on Decoy Cop's fists.)
It sounds like a cop sting. Trust me I've been doing this for 30 years. I never would have done that to you. Text me (609) 428-9884
Text you to discuss police stings?
The story as told, I'd venture to say it wasn't a sting.. but either way I can't really rationally the explain what the hell was the cop doing.
Let's assume this WAS a sting. Look at it from a cops pov. The cop doesn't know how the op looks and he waits for him to park and go to the room? The guy notices the cop and drives past. How does the cop know this is the guy? Does he know how the op looks? Does he know what he drives? There are many people who pull up to motel parking lots. At all times of the day and night. Especially cheap motel parking lots.
If there's a sting you need to actually get inside before they can hit you with anything. What's the point of following the guy even if youre somehow sure you this is the sex buyer and not some random car pulling into parking lot?
What was the point of him strictly following you? He already had your plates, he's got absolutely nothing on you. Pulling up into a parking lot of a public building is never a crime.
Last but not the least let's address the elephant in the room. If theres a sting, and you want the buyer to go in...NOT having a cop car anywhere is kinda of a mandatory step here.
A cop car hiding anywhere nearby is just not smart, period. When you're about to commit a crime, nothing sets off alarms faster than seeing a cop car.
I have no idea what the cop was doing but as a potential case of p4p motel sting it just doesn't make any sense.
Just my two cents
Everything in the story “as told” points to the OP narrowly avoiding a vice sting. Questioning the need to follow because the officer could have run his plates is uninformed. In many jurisdictions, an officer can’t run plates without cause. What he can do is follow a suspect and hope the suspect commits a traffic violation. Then he gets to interact…”what are you doing on this side of town?” “Were you at the motel to meet someone?” “If I have any more questions, is this your current address? Unless you would rather just talk now…”
The OP indicates that he texted the lady and set up a date. If it was a sting/set-up it would have been easy for LEO to run the phone number and know who the caller/texter was, and confirm his vehicle and picture through a DMV search. Plus, the text exchange would have been probable cause (a very low legal standard) to conduct the internet searches. Now, I have no idea if this was a sting or not, but if it was IMO it's likely the cops knew who the potential suspect was, and then could have followed him looking for a reason to make a traffic stop and follow the procedure you suggested.
I think this is a very big assumption to make.
Who texts unknown escorts from a non-burner phone?
And to get someone's identity from a burner phone you need a warrant and a subpoena. Ain't no one got time for this shit, they are just trying to meet some quota and earn brownie points for doing a John bust.
Come on man, John sting ops are dirt easy. Wait till Johns get in the room and give money to the undercover officer.
They are cheap and easy to conduct. Cops aren't running burner phones through system finding out vehicles registered and then being on lookout. This is a random tezter who might be a pranker or a time waster. Not some particular guy Leo's are trying to arrest.
This probably deserves a reiterarion. When doing a John sting, popo tries to arrest several guys. A guy. Not a particular guy. It's easy to do for them. Path of least resistance.
I fail to see any reason a clearly marked cop car would be anywhere close to a sting location.... And why cops would go through all this trouble to get this one guy when they can just get ten others who do go into the room.
Ah yes a vice sting with a cop car that can be seen in plain sight as someone drives into a motel.
Lol
A cop following someone who simply pulled up in a parking lot, for many turns, waiting for him to commit a traffic violation is just as funny.
When cops want to stop someone, they do it under whatever pretenses. Look at clips of them stopping a cartel big shot in a car. They stop a car without that car committing a traffic violation. Read the affidavit of the Boston kgirl org bust. They stop their car to merely confirm identification. No traffic violation.
"what are you doing on this side of town?” “Were you at the motel to meet someone?” “If I have any more questions, is this your current address?
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None of these questions are relevant to anything. The purpose of a sting is to arrest Johns. You aren't arresting a John off those questions. Even if a person is stupid enough to actually answer them and do so half truthfully (I was thinking about meeting a friend) instead of saying he simply pulled up to the wrong stop, the cop literally has nothing. Motel stings don't give cops warrants to search the phone of random car drivers.
Literally the cop cannot arrest the driver in this scenario. The goal of motel stings is fast and quick John arrests
Pulling up to a motel parking lot is not a crime, cks.
And why don’t you cut out your passive-aggressive doubting of the story “as told”, and let us know what you think was going on?
I already stated that I can't really find a rational explanation to as to what the cop was doing.
If the cop in question was an unmarked car, I would venture to say it simply wasn't a cop.
Otherwise, I have no clue. But it does not sound at all like any other motel sting document I've ever read.
The first mistake you are making is assuming cops are smart. Cops are humans who do dumb things all the time. Not every sting is a highly choreographed event, sometimes Cops get sloppy.
"A cop following someone who simply pulled up in a parking lot, for many turns, waiting for him to commit a traffic violation is just as funny."
"Literally the cop cannot arrest the driver in this scenario."
This kind of stuff happens all the time. It is what cops are trained to do. They are trained to ask questions and gauge responses. They are trained to use that to build probable cause. They are trained to convince people to agree to warrantless searches. They are trained to deceive. They go fishing and steamroll people all the time.
Have you ever watched an episode of COPS on TV? I love the show, every scene is basically the same. The officer is driving the car and talking about being a cop and the city they work in and "how its a nice town." All of a sudden the cop says "we're following this suspicious vehicle, its a nice car in a bad part of town. That usually means drugs so we're going to try to initiate a traffic stop." Then its "license and registration." The cop says "Do you know why I pulled you over, you changed lanes without signaling/didn't fully stop at the stop sign etc." The cop goes back to their car and runs the info. They go back to the perps vehicle and ask "what are you doing in this part of town." The perp, visibly nervous, says something like "I'm visiting my grandma" and the cop credulously says "you're visiting your grandma at 1AM?" Then the cop says "step out of the vehicle" and by guiding the conversation is able to build probable cause to initiate a search or get the perp to agree to one. Then the cop finds crack rocks and a crack pipe in the cup holder. The perp gets arrested and the cop gives them a lecture about cleaning up their life. The cop is now back in the car driving. The cop says "I hope they get the help they need to clean up their life" as the camera fades out, the COPS logo fades in, and we cut to commercial break. (unless its the end of the show, then the credits start).
Here's a pretty good example.
A cop following cars around hoping for a random reason to pull someone over is the most realistic part of this whole story. That's basically their whole job, its what they get paid to do.
I didn't assume cops are smart.
I know how cops conduct John operations. I specifically read up on them to know their methods. Sun tzu, art of war - know thy enemy.
So while I also loved the show COPS when I was young (and I loved the theme dearly - bad boys bad boys what u gonna dooo") I'm not going to use the show but rather use the documents and reporting on typical motel sting ops.
This is a law firm detailing how p4p stings are conducted in Houston, TX :
https://cejalawfirmtx.com/2024/04/26/undercover-operations-challenging-prostitution-sting-arrests/
"One of the most common stings involves an ad that is placed by law enforcement on websites known to have advertisements for prostitution. Anyone who replies to the ad will be lured to a hotel room, which is outfitted with cameras. Once the undercover prostitute (almost always a woman) reaches an agreement to engage in a sexual act for a fee, the police will enter the room and arrest the would-be buyer. "
How about this?
" Those arrested had called or texted the number on the online ads and arranged for hookups at the hotel"
When the “Johns” arrived at the hotel room, an undercover officer discussed having sex with the man in exchange for cash and, at times, payment by CashApp, according to probable cause affidavits provided by the Galveston County District Attorney’s office.
http://i45.disciplemedia.com/posts/3518
This has happenes for decades and dudes still don't know how it's done smh.
They literally need an undercover woman and a recording of explicit exchange of money for sex
This means if you just put your money next to your gum or a vape next to a table and don't say a word, its not enough to be charged. They need an explicit agreement of sex for money.
It's very state dependent. Hard to make blanket statements about what's chargeable and what's not.
Serious Q:
Cop writes down plate numbers (but takes no other action; no calls for a plate search, etc.).
IF No crime that night THEN notes get put away.
IF Crime committed that night THEN cops investigate cars observed in the area around the time of the crime, as written down contemporaneously in the notes (not relying on memory: "I think there was a 1964 light blue Escalade that drove by ... but I don't remember the plate number. Your thoughts if any?")
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Can a cop just write stuff down and not use it UNLESS and UNTIL there is cause?
in the pic supposed to be the Escalade?
It is an homage to TER member Escalade1964. "Your thoughts if any?"
in the pic supposed to be the Escalade?
Serious Q:
Can a cop just write stuff down and not use it UNLESS and UNTIL there is cause?
I did ask it seriously. I have witnessed a variety of suspicious and even illegal activity and I write stuff down. Eg., reckless, speeding driver running red lights. If possible, I jot down vehicle info and license plate info. NOTHING has ever come of it: no news headlines about a deadly accident close to that location.
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I usually park far away from store entrances at big malls / parking lots to avoid shopping cart and sloppy parking accidents damaging my car. Not too long ago, while walking from the desolate area towards the shops, I saw a van parked next to a fancy car (so that the van blocked the view from the "crowded" side). Some guy, positioned in the narrow space between the two vehicles was removing the front right wheel from the fancy car. It looked REALLY suspicious -- no other person was there, just the mechanic -- but the innocent explanation is: fancy car owner had a flat and called someone (friend? regular mechanic?) to come and fix it. Nevertheless, I memorized while walking past and then, 10 seconds later, I jotted down the van info ... just in case.
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I assume that a cop is allowed to jot down info "without cause" ... and can use that info after the fact, if necessary. True? I don't see any way that that can unauthorized snooping, searching or anything like that.
No one even knows if it was, in fact, a cop. The OP assumed that but unless it was a marked car it's really just speculation.
Well, since he said a cop followed him I assumed he meant a cop car.
If it was an unmarked car with civilian plates and no extra lights, then he shouldn't have said a cop followed him.
And such situation would make more sense to me. Enough shady characters doing all kinds of biz at these motels.
If it was an unmarked car with civilian plates and no extra lights, then he shouldn't have said a cop followed him.
There are plenty of cars out on the road that some people mistake for unmarked police vehicles when they're not.
I would guess either the external spot light that sometimes is mounted on the driver's A-pilar or the small one's in the front grill and rear deck under the rear window.
There are plenty of police departments that sell their vehicles at auction. Some will remove everything that's not factory installed and plenty of others have no issues leaving the spotlights in place as well as the grill lights - the wiring and controllers are removed rendering the lights inoperable.
Jensen already answered it, but unmarked cop cars have extra lights to turn on if needed. Sirens on demand. Sometimes they manually they put it on. Most of the time they're visible either near the windshield or at the rear.
So this is info from many years ago and I'm sure things like antennae was changed due to tech advanxement
This is how I used to watch out for an unmarked car:
1. State exempt registration plates. Dead giveaway and obviously deep deep undercovers won't use them. This doesn't mean anyone with these plates is a cop, it means it's a government employee car.
2. Large antennae. Cops need to have clear transmission so they used these. Same thing with motorcycles from afar. If you see several antennae on a motorcycle in your mirrors it's prolly a cop.
3. Goes with 1. but all government vehicles are those with whom the govt does biz. Back in the day in my area it was interceptors, crown vics, then it was impalas. I used to even remember what headlight config crown vics had so I could identify them earlier.
4. Typically they have two guys in it. Not always but usually.
5. Goes with three but often they have a separator in the vehicle.
I’m guessing different departments do different things so I can only speak for my area.
The days of UC LE vehicles simply being standard cop crown vics and impalas without the PD paint job are long gone. When you see a crown vic with a regular paint job, a spotlight in the A pillar and hideous wheels, it’s far more likely to be a civilian in a car they bought at a surplus auction than a cop.
Around here I see cops driving everything from Camaros and Chargers to a fully blacked out customized pickup with a ten inch lift, or a crap box Ranger sporting a camper shell. Import tuners, family sedans, you name it.
The red and blue lights are across the top of the windshield on the inside, sometimes just on the back of the visors so you are less likely to spot them when not in use. If they’re still hiding them in the grill, they’ve gotten a lot better at it. Also they’re in the rear window as you said.
Honestly the only common denominator is the ridiculously illegal dark tinting (No reason for LE to follow the law amiright?), So you can’t see the extra lights and the separator inside. I think that’s why they hardly ever enforce the tint laws at all anymore. So you can’t just say every car on the freeway with illegal tint is a cop.
They used to have four or more antennas. Now they have maybe one extra but it’s pretty small.
I’m not sure if they use permanent plates around here. That’s an interesting point. But front plates are not required here, and if I’m close enough to see the top right corner of the plate says perm as opposed to an expiration date, it’s probably too late anyways. Good point you brought up though.
This conversation has reminded me of a certain scene from a certain movie.
Agree about what LEO uses for undercover vehicles. In SoCal they frequently use vehicles seized in drug or other busts. The do frequently have government plates on the but it's hard to discern that in your rearview mirror.
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You talked about distinctive lights. When I was learning to drive in the late 60s the CHP drove Oldsmobile Cutlass and they had two yellow running lights very low on the front bumper. They were a dead giveaway if you could spot them.
Jensen already answered it, but unmarked cop cars have extra lights to turn on if needed. Sirens on demand. Sometimes they manually they put it on. Most of the time they're visible either near the windshield or at the rear.
Sirens on demand? WTF does that mean?
"Manually put it on"? The sirens or the lights? Either way it's all manual. Lights and sirens don't decide to turn themselves on.
5. Goes with three but often they have a separator in the vehicle.
The ones you can "manually" place on the roof and remove just by grabbing them and pulling them off/placing them back. I think thats what he means. lol.
Bubble gum machine. Not used anymore. Really old technology.
How's retirement?
LoL retirement is good thanks, except for that gas powered dildo Ed bought broke down.
You’re right about the bubble gum light not being used anymore. I just like driving through locker rooms.
You watch too many Kojak reruns.
It's been over 20 years since I've seen those things. The ones mounted inside the vehicle and hidden are way more effective.
What if the incident had nothing to do with the escort but rather the location? Say the cheap motel was a known location for drug dealers/sales. The client shows up, does a turn, sees a cop car, and gets out of Dodge. That looks suspicious and so the cop follows him hoping for a reason to pull him over, thinking there’s a good chance of a drug bust.
Live 420Smoka4Eva mentioned, this scenario is/was portrayed regularly on “Cops” and also on “Live PD” before that show got canceled.
There’s often all sorts of shady stuff going down in these motels I’m sure.