reread the post
More than a year ago, I raised this topic on a number of TER boards when a Florida provider took a lot of heat because she posted on her website that she would not schedule with black men. The issue has been raised on the Boston board because another provider has posted this preference on her website. I think it’s a good discussion topic.
It seems providers/agencies are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Providers take heat if they don’t publish client preferences on their website but when they do post a preference, they are labeled racist or prejudiced.
A provider may in fact choose not to see certain potential clients for racist reasons. On the other hand, maybe she’s just not into black guys or Asian guys or fat guys and so on. We should also consider the fact that many women who enter the hobby do so with personal baggage. “Sexy Sally” may have been molested by grandpa so she now is a provider who will not see clients over a certain age.
When I was active in the hobby, I always told providers up front that I use a wheelchair. In a perfect world, I should not have had to do so. However, it is better than being turned away at the door. The last time I checked, the world was not perfect!
Respectfully, people need to stop whining and be realistic. We are not talking about someone denying you service in a restaurant or store. The interaction in the hobby is very intimate. THE LADY IS NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES OBLIGED TO SEE EVERYONE!!! Over and above this point, why would you want to see anybody who is not interested in seeing you?
Opinions?
thirsty
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 7:14:44 PM
there is something distasteful about a person who finds another unpleasant simply because of their ethnicity. A hobbiest's age, size or physical disability may alter the nature of the experience and therefore this may make it difficult for some women to accomodate their needs, in which case it's appropriate for these women to exclude these men as clients and convey this info upfront. But please, how does skin colour make the act any different?
Regardless of whether you personally were black, caucasian, asian or whatever, why would you wish to spend time with a women who not only IS a racist, but feels no qualms about advertising the fact?
Have to agree with Emma. Please don't have me walk to the door and you won't open it because of my race. Let me know up front and I will move on. No harm, no foul. Someone will take my money and enjoy my company. I always said honest is best in this hobby. Most Providers show there faces but hobbyists are unknown..I love women and the punta is the same color (pink)..lol
Last year, this TER guy booked me. Then, a day or so before our date he canceled his appointment saying he was going to book this other provider and not me because I'm white and he didn't like to spend time with white girls.
So prejudice, in this business, goes both ways.... from certain providers towards clients and from certain clients towards providers.
I don't discriminate against anything...race, age, color, weight or disabilities...but I do discriminate and will NOT provide for anyone who doesn't meet my standards of cleaniness or has any hazardous (or contagious) health problems.
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 7:34:26 PM
She said because they were telling her business..I guess each her own. WFO..LOL
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 7:36:46 PM
I assume you meant she won't see blacks? The last time I raised this topic, a number of black providers stated this preference.
thirsty
thirsty; my money spends like anyone else. I am an intelligent guy and sucessful in life.. Why not see me? I worked hard all my life to get to this point. You know who I am, so we don't have to play games. The female in D.C know that I would never see her because of this BS.
If you'd like to rewrite it. I'll read it again.
Yes this is a cheap shot, I'm just adding to Mr. Info's threads and I'm sure my replies are just as welcome as his.
A taste of his own medicine.
As I've said before, I'll come out of the alias closet if he does.
You will just suck in s***. But, of course, you know that now.
Mr. Info was responding to a thread, you chose to attack him in a despicable and cowardly way. Grow up, and develop some common sense while you are at it.
I don't like the way Mr.Info posts many times, this is especially true when he sometimes kicks an honest newbie on the newbie board. But when I have had issues with him, I have been direct. You were not and to boot, your methodology was slimy.
1. Mr. Info is an alias, 2. So are you Gothicman. So all three of us will "suck in s***" together, but of course, you know that now too.
Otherwise I would respond with: thank you, that's how it was intended. It is to make a point that smart ass aliases like me, you and Mr. Info have no place on this board. I make no excuses, I agree with you. I'm gone and out of here after this post (maybe). Now will the "well known alias" (so his excuse reads) also disappear?
After all my alias is just a parody of Mr. Info's, for all you know, I am Info/Frankie and as far as anybody else knows so are you.
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 6:43:48 AM
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 7:36:44 AM
and when he was asking for an appointment he mentioned the previous color incident.
I asked why he was contacting me if I was not the right color for his taste and he said none of his favorite girls was available that night and I was "in town"....that set me off and I started to get a bit sarcastic and we spent a long time on the phone talking about his issues and I told him that his prejudice against me, based only on my white self pictures was funny because I'm not even white, lol, I'm a mutt (my mom is from Brazil with amazonian indian and italian/portuguese/black descent...my father from Ohio with german & english descent).
I really thought about NOT seeing him but I accepted his request and I told him that I was going to make a point to show how wrong he was and what he was missing because of his preferences.
When he came over, I was a bit anxious and with my guard up. But, once we started to talk and laugh about this stupid issue, we got comfy with each other and our encounter ended up being great and I found him to be a real nice guy.
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 8:46:09 PM
So he didn't have a tail and was a nice guy. Shame most black guys in this hobby are. We respect women and we go out our way to not give AA a bad name..
american clients were like unless you were a provider?
So, racism is an absolute no-no.
But you believe a woman can refuse to see a guy maybe perchance under a certain age, because she perceives that they may be assholes or whatever. Also, you can elect to choose to see 300+ diabetic men who can not maintain erections, or maybe not see them. That is okay because may be physically revolting. Bottom line: is it not an economic decision?
Never have I been a racist, but why denigrate racism but accept or deny abject obesity, or without thought refuse to see men solely because of their age.
Each of these may be prejudicial. But, is it wrong for a provider to do or not to do?
Oh, as for me, I want the provider to be intelligent and witty. If she is stupid and dull, and I refuse to see her as a consequence, is that prejudicial also?
Generally, I have seen that the ladies that meet the former do not worry about preference of any kind. While the ones that meet the later will have at least one type of silly, restrictive preference.
and phyical attraction is not part of the issue. In the context of the hobbiest/provider relationship, obesity and age are medical rather than aesthetic issues. Some women won't have the ability or the patience to deal with men with chronic erectile dysfunction, circulatory problems, angina or other medical conditions. It's much better for all involved if they acknowledge it upfront and don't take on a role they know they can't fill.
Based on this argument, it is irrelevent whether or not the provider's reluctance to see the man is based on physical attraction.
It is a fact that some providers will see men of color for fear if they don't, they will be torn apart on the boards. Dumb idea, I know. Some providers pay way too much attention to the boards and the reviews.
Now, I'm not suggesting that some providers choose to not see certain clients based on racist feelings. However, please do not assume that this is the only reason.
I agree providers should be up front about it. My point was providers are damned if they are upfront and damned if they turn gents away at the door.
thirsty
It's a simple one. People have the right, and indeed the obligation, to reject customers if they can't meet the customers special needs. Ethnicity doesn't fall into this category.
Providers also have a right to reject anyone because the intimacy of the service means that personal predjudices would prevent them from delivering their service. In essence, rascists must have the right to reject customers who elicit a negative response based on skin colour. But that doesn't mean that rascism is ok or that they are not people with a problem that they should address and eliminate.
there are people in the world that will kill us in an instant because of our nationality or religion. As I pointed out in another post to this thread, I choose not to see ladies that have racial preferces, because they have nothing that would interest me.
Enough has already been said on this but I think you summed it up well. "Sure she can, but it's wrong and I'd never want to deal with someone like that, even if I wasn't in the group she was refused".
Let's get that out of the way first. That is
just the definition of those two words.
Having said that, a provider can choose not to
see anyone she wants - whether it's for racists
reasons or not. You're not going to convince
a provider otherwise.
Whether it's smart to put that on a website is
another question. I would say it is not and
here's why. She may offend people of other races
and lose business. If I were her, I would just
ask it as a screening question. It will
accomplish the same thing and probably offend
less people.
I automatically strike any woman off my list if she has an overt or covert racial preference. I never see ones again that I mistakenly see but find out the information during the session. I work in a multicultural world where I have to meet and deal with people of all races as equals. I cannot look at myself in a positive light if I knowingly had sex with any woman that would exclude civilized gentlemen because of their race or ethnic group. Racial exclusion by providers, although it happens, appear to be becoming a thing of the past. Businesswise ladies see all gentlemanly callers that have the money to pay for her time. I say let the dinosaurs work and leave the business, nothing but good will take their place.
appears to be becoming a thing of the past, but I'm not so sure. There's no doubt that racial prejudice in general is, but when it comes to sex, personal preferences are still very much in existence (and this goes beyond racial exclusions). For instance, I know of one EXTREMELY popular provider (nothing but 8's, 9's and 10's in reviews) that generally refuses to see blacks. It certainly hasn't affected her business - she makes tons of money and gets more clients calling her than she could ever possibly see. While she has seen a couple of black guys in the past (and actually liked them), she makes a concerted attempt to screen them out and avoid them if possible. Is she prejudiced? Oh yes, without a doubt. But it's her personal preference, and she's told me this many times (although I doubt she's said it to others - I've known her well for years). Do I agree with her? No, I don't. But as she has said to me a few times, "it's my body, not yours." But I'll tell you this - it sure as hell hasn't affected her business one iota.
So all of the awards for the African American population that exludes other races is prejudice and racism and not pride as they claim? The same for the Latin population and their awards that exlude other races? So why is pride when they exlude other races but if a white person chooses to exlude another race for something such as this hobby, it's racist?
specialized awards shows. The awards that exclude other races, be it black, latino or otherwise didn't start out of racist feelings. They started as a way to celebrate the talented people of those ethnic backgrounds that were not being recognized in the mainstream awards shows. The Academy Awards, The Emmys and the Tonys are all predominantly white. People from other ethinic backgrounds found it difficult, or nearly impossible to get recognition in venues of that sort for whatever reasons. So, they created their own to celebrate their own. Is there anything inherently racist about that?
That's kinda my point, they weren't getting what they thought they deserved so rather than fight for it, they chose to segregate themselves and exlude all other races. Then they bitch and complain because they are segregated, but they did it to themselves, and continue to do it in so many ways. But let there be anything set up for a white group that exludes any and/or all other races and they must be prejudice.
The provider sets the rules, states them clearly, cheers to her. At least there are no awkward moments at hotel room doors.
Another point: Would a black provider get all this attention if they announced they only would see black men?
No because white guys will see a black providers.. But won't see a white provider if she see a brother. Shame
have racial preferences out of principle, regardless of whether they are black, white or something else. I have no interest in them. If you prefer to see white women on occasion, try seeing women that come here from Europe, Canada, Australia, ect. They do not appear to be as hung up as USA women about race, and often they are more interesting because they are typically better educated and have travelled more. As for white men that would not see a provider that sees a Black man, oh well, I would guess that they would have more substantive things to occupy their thoughts with.
It doesn't lead to healthy debate or better understanding. All it does is give one segment of the TER community an opportunity to say nasty things about minorities (under the guise of defending a provider's choice), while the another segment of the community says they're prejudice.
A woman is not obliged to see everyone. In fact, it's best for a hobbyist not to see a provider if she doesn't like his type. Any rational person would see this if they were thinking with their big head. Therefore, it makes sense if she makes her preferences known.
In the Boston post, a friend of the provider asked for opinions as to why the provider has not had an appointment for months. The "she doesn't see black men, which precludes me from seeing her" was just one of many reasons given in response to the question. There were many other reasons given.
Can't we just let the race issue die and focus on having fun?
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 7:43:34 PM
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 7:44:16 PM
Isn't my post clear? Frankly, I'm tired of the labeling.
If a hobbyist does not chose to see providers of color, we respect his choice. Why is it okay for hobbyists to choose their partners and not okay for providers? Don't tell me it is different because providers are getting compensated. That's pure B.S! As I wrote, this is a very intimate hobby. You can't compare refusal of service here to the same situation in let's say a restaurant.
In my time at TER I have spoken to providers who see all clients because they fear the backlash from the boards. Is that fair?
thirsty
P.S. If any part of this thread becomes offensive, I will edit it accordingly. If I miss anything, by all means let me know. Beyond that, my usual disclaimer applies. You have my permission to not read this thread.
Thirsty,
Not sure if your third post was aimed at me, but it seems like it was. I didn't label anyone. What I said was that your post would cause people to do so. And yes, your post was clear, but so was mine. I didn't say a provider should see everone.
What I said was "A woman is not obliged to see everyone. In fact, it's best for a hobbyist not to see a provider if she doesn't like his type. Any rational person would see this if they were thinking with their big head. Therefore, it makes sense if she makes her preferences known."
Our view on this is the same. The only difference is that I wish the same issue didn't keep coming up. It's been covered ad nauseam.
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 9:50:35 PM
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 9:51:58 PM
I didn't mean to suggest that you labeled anyone. My post was aimed at you only because you are the only poster so far to suggest that this is not a valid topic for discussion.
thirsty
that have preferences. It would seem that any educated, sophisticated woman would have realized that racial preferences is a deadend street. The lady in Boston is getting the business that she deserves.
to desensitize the public to the issue. As far as I can recall it has been at least 6 months since this was last discussed on TER. If memory serves me it was discussed because an African-American TER user was complaining because he wanted to see an agency girl who refused to see anyone who was African-American. He was pi$$ed of, so he posted about the agency having racist tendencies. The thread was uncalled for.
IMHO, the topic should be discussed frequently to make the public aware of all of our opinions. I have heard of a few agency girls who don't like to see, but will see them because the agency owner does not want to get the bad press of being a racist. I don't think that the title of being a racist is fair in the given situation. If we continue to discuss the topic, providers will be more comfortable about expressing their opinions about what clients they want to see and what clients they don't want to see.
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 9:36:09 AM
If their behavior is not an issue for men, White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, or other racial and ethnic groups then the agencies will be ok. In this LE climate, you can bet that LE will not kick their doors in to protect the rights of an excluded man. But any forward thinking man will not do business with them again.
If the agency, as an entity, refused him service because of his race, why was he wrong to be upset and share his feelings with the board? It's bad enough if a provider has those issues, but if the agency, as an organization, supports that kind of policy, should they be in business?
I was trying to explain why Thirsty started this thread. Everyone seems to agree that a provider/agency has the right to choose who she/they will and won't see. RoDunn complained that Thirsty was bringing up a topic that has been discussed before. All I was saying is that if this topic was discussed more openly, then providers/agency owners would not feel that they had to see clients who they did not feel comfortable seeing. If this topic was discussed more openly then the guy who posted the thread about being denied a session would have understood why. At least he would have had a better understanding as to why. I would never judge what is right or wrong as it is not my place to do so, but I will support the idea that providers should see clients who they feel comfortable with. If we can search through hudereds of EROS ads and make our own decision to who we want to see, then why can't a provider do the same thing when it comes to seening clients?
The fact that the lady Rodun mentioned has not had appointments for months and has the racial preference on her site should tell her something. Her brand of thinking simply is outdated in a fast moving and increasingly complex world. She has a simple choice, change the way that she thinks or find another profession.
Every executive or manager supervise an increasingly rainbowed array of employees. The boses of those executives or managers are more frequently from other ethnic groups or races. A smart executive or manager has inclusion as a hallmark of their daily behavior, down to the most intimate issues such as seeing a provider. Any smart executive or manager will not see a woman that has racial preferences that are more important to her than whether the man is a gentleman, well groomed and has her fee.
Again, respectfully it is not realistic to ask providers to make decisions purely on what's best for business. If it were that easy, every provider would be PSE.
Sorry, aint gonna happen...
thirsty
We might be getting paid but we still deal with disease, raped and beaten, dead, LE, public humiliation when outed and cancellations. This job pays good but we still have expenses and at times work harder than CEOs to keep what we have plus this job does have baggage.
If I was an adult porn star, I would allow all types of men and women to buy my movies.
If I was a dancer, I would look far and wide for a strip club that was private to screen out some of the idiots.
I am on my own in this hobby.
"diseased, raped and beaten, killed" etc. by seeing black men than by others. You may not have meant that, but that is the way it came across to me (and if me, possibly others). Do you feel that by providing for black men creates a higher risk to your safety? Is that the underlying issue here?
I prejudge people all the time. If they babble on the phone, send me attachments in e-mails, or start sniveling I will hang up and / or mail block them long before their foot gets in the door. Stupidity is the bane of this biz.
However, I like spice. That is why I hobby. Love sees no color. It never ceases to amaze me that we still have these discussions. How many generations must we wait?
==========================
"I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.
Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.
But one hundred years later, the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.
In a sense we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check -- a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quick sands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of God's children.
It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.
But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.
We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone.
As we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied, as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.
I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.
Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair.
I say to you today, my friends, so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today.
I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.
I have a dream today.
I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.
This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the South with. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day...
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 8:04:47 PM
This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."
And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!
Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!
Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California!
But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!
Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!
Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.
And when this happens, When we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"
--MLK
A lot of typing and worth every key punch....
http://www.lib.lsu.edu/hum/mlk/srs216.html
Nobel Peace Prize awarded at age 35.
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 8:20:18 PM
I agree NetM.. He was great but we don't live in a perfect world. I am African American and I know there are doors I can't go thru. Shame I have to hide behind a alias.. My choice.
By the way, aren't you a provider of color, many colors actually. 
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 10:45:09 PM
Call me crazy but if the biggest issue facing Black America in 2005 is the fact that an escort will not see him or her because of the color of their skin, I'd take that! Do you think most of Black America even cares about this!! Get serious and realize you are talking about a very small part of Black America here and when push comes to shove anyone can find what is being offered here if they really want it. Call me crazy again but when MLK was fighting for civil rights I don't think having equal acess to escorts was high on the agenda. Being black this issue (escorts seeing black men) occupies minimum brain space in my day to day life. Get over yourselves and move on!! Bigger fish to fry!
Here is some food for thought:
It's obvious a lot of men truly enjoy this hobby. But I wonder what percentage of men who have daughters or sisters would embrace them being providers? If you are honest I bet there would be some conflict in your answer.
Just some random thoughts for a Sunday Morning. I don't have a TER e-mail but if you'd like to send me a private e-mail please do so at [email protected]
Also, point out that women's rights are just as small as minorities. Try going to the police when you are a 13yr old virgin to report a 28yr old man trying to rape you and the police say that men can't help themselves.
Even today, when a woman is on the news it is passive. "A woman was raped last thursday" instead of "A man raped a woman last thursday". Even here it is always the woman's fault.
Try working for a car dealership that is male dominated or try talking to someone after you get pregnant. When I got pregnant, everyone acted like it took one person. A man can walk around fathering 6 kids whereas a woman is welfare trash if she does the same. Notice how a woman is considered old in the profession or others after 40 where a man looks distinguished with wrinkles and gray hair.
I don't wake up hating men but I realize that although equality is a long way away. I get on with life and realize as I turn 30 this December that I will lose clients to 20 yr olds and will lose more every year after that in our society where youth is admired over wisdom
Here is another angle. I know this provider who dates black men in real life but not when she is working. Her reasoning was that she would not be able to work all day after being with 2 black men in a day because of their manhood. What do providers say to this ?
I think it's a crock because contrary to that myth not all black men are hung like horses. Would you believe I always believed my whole life that white men had little pinky sized dicks until the first white man I made love to nearly split me in half and he wasn't the only one. The next white man I encountered had a penis so large I tried to run away from it.
What a bunch of happy horseshit! Patooie!
Thirsty, I don't think that there is anything that I can add that you didn't already cover. I agree this isn't a case of service in a restaurant, it is an intimate encounter, and the provider's preferences are paramount.
I don't mind having a session with a black girl, if she turns me on. It's not a matter of race, it's purely sexual!
You fuck black but have a problem with a white provider being with a black guy... Nice...
PROVIDER's choice whether or not to see someone (in this case, a white provider and a black customer). Nowhere did he say HE had a problem with a white provider being with a black guy. He also said he would see a black provider if that suited him. I think you drew a conclusion that in no way was justified. I realize that this is a sensitive issue for you, but you jumped to the wrong conclusion. I know providers who will see black guys, and I know providers that won't. It may be racism, it may just be personal taste. Who knows? But sex is a personal decision, and I would hesitate to call it racism if a white provider doesn't want to have sex with a black man. I know a couple of black providers who won't see black men, but I certainly wouldn't call them racist. Would you?
Now that is funny.. I call them hyprocrite..Soon as they get off there backs they are still black.. All black guys are not criminal and we do have a thought process. I love all women, I prefer black. Am I racist (no) my motto is 18 to 80 blind, criple (sp) or crazy. I like women period.
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 6:37:12 AM
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 6:38:03 AM
just because i am black does not mean i should date black guys, just like, just because i am muslim doesn't mean i should love dating arabs.
Personal choice, is something that fully evolved humans tend to acquire.
just because you will "do" anything with a vagina, does not mean that all escorts will "do" anything with a penis
i think this goes back to the streetwalker/escort debate
a street walker would probably "do" anything with a penis as long as he has cash, but a escort can afford to be more discriminate about who she spends her time with
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 1:11:16 AM
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 11:51:36 AM
it might be the underlying reason for her rejection of Black men. However, her reasons are irrelevant. She can see whomever she wants to see.
As hobbyists we can (and do) select providers according to our likes and dislikes. Some of us like short, some of us like tall, some of us like petite, some of us like full figures, and some of us like them all. If you’re a man who prefers a particular type of woman over another are you in effect prejudiced. The answer is yes. Despite the politically correct terminology that the word “prejudice” had become, we are all practicing some form of it every day. Do you like your coffee black or with cream. It’s a matter of taste. What we do behind closed doors or in private is not by the PC definition contemplated as prejudice. Just as the Constitution has been interpreted to give all equal rights under the law, it also gives us a right to privacy. So if you want to romp with green women only (any trekkies out there?) go right ahead. If you prefer red wine, drink up.
Oh, yeah, since the sale of sex is illegal, the constitution does not apply and thus there is no equal opportunity in prostitution.
With those words you said it all. I prefer not tp see women that have baggage. So they can post whatever they want on their websites or see whomever they want, they just won't see me.
Then you're either not getting to know the woman beyond physical or you have a very short list of providers to choose from. 
thirsty
I get this type of question all the time since I am a black provider who does not see men of color, for example:
In a message dated 3/25/2005 9:32:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Dear Vicky,
As a man of color who has had the distinct pleasure to attend one of the most prestigious business school in this nation and who, from time to time, likes to partake in the carnal delights of a distinctive BBW woman of color as beautiful as you clearly are, I find it offensive that you seem the think the "sperm" of white men is superior to those of men of color.
While you are clearly an attractive woman and, in fact, experienced a tremendous weight gain over the last four years, a decent and professional man of color should have the same "equal opportunity" access to engage in coitus with you. Discrimination on the basis of color is against the law and you can actually be sued by making it plain on your website.
Dear noname:
If anyone tried to sue me for saying I don't date or hang out with, or meet certain races, that would be thrown out of court, its a freedom of choice issue and
Uhh I definitely never mention sperm anywhere in any posts, that is a classless remark that apparently your education didn't teach you not to make
I also never mention coitus or anyone having an opportunity to experience it with me that would be illegal
How about asking me WHY I prefer to see Asian men or Caucasian men before assuming things (have you heard the saying about ASSUMING making an ass out of you?)
Thanks
In a message dated 3/25/2005 11:21:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Dear Ms. Vicki,
What if you went into a lingerie store, Miss Vickie, and were told that they will not sell their items to you because you are a big, black woman? Is that freedom of choice? It does not matter whether or not you mentioned coitus in your advertisement; everyone knows that it is (to put it in the parlance of the street) pussy for sale.
You obviously prefer Asian and White men because you are the Ultimate Slave. I hope you don't believe, for one minute, that you are Irish. You are a big, sexy black girl who is selling pussy and sucking dick for a living. Don't forget where you come from. A brother (black man) should have the same right to pay his money and be with you as an Asian or White man.
~ noname
Dear noname:
Please don't equate being in my company to being in a store, I am a live human with feeling and emotions, and if I was told I had to legally see all races and sexes I would get in a different business, there is no need for me to allow my self to be re traumatized over and over just because someone thinks that being in the company of a escort is similar to selling items in a store and should be available to everyone.
If the storeowner told me, listen, I just got robbed by a fat black chick that looked just like you, and sorry I am not letting you in, I would feel bad but I would understand his choice
I prefer not to see men of color for several very personal reasons.
And no I don’t think I am any race but black, I am a proud black woman, even when people say I am "mixed" I correct them and say "no I am black and proud"
I come from a line of women who believe in choosing what is right for you and thinking independently and treating yourself respectfully and only doing what you choose in any situation and I uphold that standard every day of my life
That is where I come from
Thanks
Sorry "brother", by the way I have enough brothers and the fact that you say a "brother" should be able to pay to be with me is sick, that is like incest or something isn't it?
-- Modified on 4/30/2005 11:15:53 PM
spend. I take pride in having a multicultural viewpoint on life. In my line of business, I would not and should not survive if I did not. I do not care why you do not see Black men, that is your choice. It will only factor in when I am researcing ladies and you somehow become one of the choices.
I have to agree with Vicki on this one. Here is a valid point I think you're missing. I was having lunch last week with a provider friend and this topic entered the conversation. She is a Caribbean woman of Indian descent. A well educated and intelligent lady who has a full time profession in the real world and does the escort thing on the side. She told me she would not see indian men because of their reputation of the way they treat women. As far as blacks, she is simply not attracted to them. It IS about intimacy not a corporate board meeting at the office. Should my friend be obligated to see men she is not attracted to, or even worse those she beleives may treat her like dirt? I think not. On a personal note, I'm finding myself more and more attracted to woman of color, latinas, french canadian and eastern european women. Why? They seem to treat men better and have way less hang ups than their american sisters, in my humble opinion. Not a racist thing just a choice.
I understand your feelings on not wanting to see a narrow minded bigot. People like that raise the hairs on the back of my neck. I just think you're missing a point here. Everything is not black and white(pun intended) there are grey areas too.
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 6:43:23 AM
I think we are all in agreement that this is a particularly intimate service, and certainly shouldn't be judged by the same standards we would apply to service in other industries. And we all seem to agree that women have the right to refuse to see men who they know, or reasonably expect, will treat them badly.
However, is it ethical, or even rational, to use ethnicity as the basis for screening out undesirable characteristics such as rudeness, agression and just an all round bad attitude?
My dear, how would you feel if a woman openly stated she wouldn't see jewish men, and justified it on the grounds that "everyone knows these guys are stingy and they'll try to short change me". Would you accept that she was just exercising her perogative to choose her partners according to her own beliefs about a particular class of people?
It is called profiling. Many providers won't see a very young man in his 20's, or one that is a blue collar trucker.
I don't see anything wrong with profiling as this is a dangerous hobby at times. Would you invest thousands of dollars into a franchise with the research? I have spend thousands on gyms, cosmetic procedures, etc and I like to cater to those that have given me favorable experiences as my life is too short to be put in risks that I don't feel justified in taking.
If some guy just wanted to give me my fee and he didn't require the "other" I would open myself to all genders, races and ages but lets get pratical. Most of the hobbyists want to get physical and $250 is not enough to put me in an uncomfortable position or in danger.
So, are you saying black men are more likely to rob or rape providers than another race. So, that is the reason for your prejudice? The majority of serial rapists and killers are white men over 30. Ummmm. Are you really safe? If you want safe, use references and a screening process that lowers your risk, not race. Last time I heard the word profiling, it was discrimination, but I guess you can discriminate this business, cause it is intimate right. LOL. There is no excuse for basing your decision on race outside the fact that you are stereotyping people based on what you see on tv or on the street. I wonder do any of the agencies run into this issue? Only experience I have had have been with indies.
I think you read your own prejudices into her statement.
Happy leave the alias. I am not implying my own prejudice, she is only excluding one group, and her reference is to someone hurting her, and it is not worth $250. Umm, if she thinks she can be safer because she excludes black man, wonder who she is talking about?
no, I pointed out that 250 is not enough money to get me into a private session with anyone I feel uncomfortable with.
Everyone on this site knows that I require a meeting before our session to get to know the person for 20 bucks at a public place. Several blacks have told me they were white and met me at the mall only the make me terrified b/c they lied to me. I also walk away if someone lies about their age. I had an 80yr old man tell me he was 45 and I got into my car and drove off. It is bad enough when you get into a private session and have to worry if this guy is going to rob or kill you and he made it past the first date but why should I be forced to take in a guy who lies to me to get me to meet him.
Considering the fact that virgin women don't get enough help from police when stabbed or raped, how much chances do I have with this occupation?
I have to weed through all my emails trying to dodge LE, psychos and people who try to haggle the prices. All these people waste a lot of my time.
I tend to date men who I would date for free and then I leave my valuables at home so that in case a new client does rape and rob me--I have lessened the trauma as much as I know how.
Some guys have gotten into a private session with me by giving me a name of a provider who I communicate with but just giving me provider references doesn't work as the provider may know your family so you won't beat her up like you will me and it is my word against yours in this hobby so I screen to a level that I feel the most comfortable with. I am also not a fulltime provider. I do this to pay a couple bills so one guy a week at my rates is awesome.
Enough said.
Why don't you tell us who you are, so we can be sure not to waste our time emailing you.
this was my high school nickname b/c I look like Winona Ryder. I am not required to put my first and last name up here.
You are an idiot for asking such things. I don't care if my name was Stephanie Smith
this was my high school nickname b/c I look like Winona Ryder. I am not required to put my first and last name up here.
You are an idiot for asking such things. I don't care if my name was Stephanie Smith
This tendency to resort to threats and violence during a normal social interaction seems to make the very "case in point" you are trying to dispute. See our post lower in the thread.
ps. everyone knows how to find us
her original post and point out to us where she referred to black men. That may prove to be rather difficult! 
of you. Looks to me that YOUR prejudices are really showing now. You're the ignorant one, not me. But you can call me whatever you want if it makes you feel better, but the fact remains that you can't read!
Nowhere did Martin Luther King tell people that they had to marry someone or get sexually intimate with someone of another race.
Does anyone think it is wrong when a Japanese man tries to fix his daughter up with Japanese men?
I am filipino, italian, amd cherokee. I live in South Carolina b/c my father retired down here from DC. My mother's family is from Scotland and England. My father was raised in the philippines and learned English second to Tagalog so none of my ancestors were slave owners or had anything to do with segregation. They were friends with blacks, asians, and other races. They didn't tell me that I had to date only whites but I find certain looks and body types more favorable than others and I choose not to fake any feelings. I do this part time in my hometown so I date who I feel comfortable with. My dates just bring white envelopes with them but we both approve of each other's looks and personality before the private session.
If black people can date black people and excludes whites from their sexual history than white people should be able to do the same. That is true equality. Sex is a completely different ballpark than civil rights or employment.
You can't use the race card in dating like it was used for OJ.
My question now is....
why would any man want to spend time or money with a woman if he knows ahead of time that she is only comfortable with certain types.
I am a human being first and a provider next. I really don't need a man calling me up to bust a nut and kick me out the door which is why I spend much more time getting to know my clients via email and phone before our dinner date that is before a private session.
For a man to insist on seeing me after knowing I am uncomfortable, makes me wonder how dangerous he is.
No one is saying you have to date anyone outside of your race. That is between you and God, your prejudice. Just say you are prejudice against black men and move on. Quit trying to justify your prejudice. That's what pisses me off. You continue to dig a deeper hole with each post. Just leave it alone, you can not justify it. By the way, no one pulled an OJ race card. We are talking about your prejudice and no one elses.
Am I sexist for not wanting to be with a female?
I have noticed a couple posters asking for providers to be boycotted if they don't see black men b/c they are "racist"
I have no problem with idiots jumping on a bandwagon so long as it stays calm but if providers start getting harassed and stalked, then it is entirely different story.
I don't know who is woman in boston is but I am quite sure she has enough business and I wish her luck
As you said, i do have great clientele and I am not weeping over anyone who decides not to see me because they don't like my personal preference.
hey i never said i didn't have some prejudice
most experienced smart humans do
The way this thread was started, prejudice was inferred to be similiar to racist.
I have yet to have a hispanic or indian person ask me to escort..just whites and blacks and many whites get turned down after I meet them but the way these people act==it is like I have complete strangers lined up to bust a nut and go onto the next one. I do my best to keep those I do take as I don't want a large number of partner each year.
elrod0007 your real name?
I think that Elrod0007 is being overly sensitive, there are too many choices of providers that will see him, so he should let the low class ones find whomever they will see.
But getting back to you, answer Emma's question to you.
This thread is going on forever. I'll go back and check.
dangerous to her. That is a clueless, ignorant piece of subjection. If she made an effort to screen clients properly. It always surprises me why a provider will rule out a polished, civilized Harvard educated Black executive while granting a session to a white immigrant taxi driver. How many ways can one spell ignorant and clueless?
Happy see you and wanna at the next klan meeting.
Since you have no intelligence
the KKK was created to preserve the white race. I want an italian/asian baby so backoff.
Sex is something that cannot be bought and sold. Anyone wanting to give me 250 for conversation can do so regardless of race or gender but I know the reality of this hobby so this offer will get me a rip--off rating
Ignorant and clueless describe both of you rather well. And you can spell it "stilltryin25."
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 10:04:47 AM
I was simply pointing out that the lady in question did not mention black men in her original post. Nothing more. You added your own interpretation to it.
If I was a stripper, I wouldn't have a problem with black men as my gynecologist (sp?) and my dentist are black men. I don't cringe when a black man touches me. I just don't get sexually aroused at the sight of one and I don't get aroused at all white men which is why I have the dinner date to let my lower half make the decision for me.
alias. Come out and show half of yourself and I will take you seriously. Until then I wrote what I wrote and I stand by it.
You have your preferences, I have mine. Actually, I use a number of aliases. Keeps things interesting.
I can't even find which threads respond to what ones anymore with the way this tree has forked
I said that 250 isn't enough to put me in any danger as I require a dinner date before seeing anyone in a public place. I will not go forward with the private session if I find out the client has lied to me about his age, race, height, weight or if he has recently been in prison. I also talk a lot during the date about different topics. I won't go into a private session if the client yells at the waiter, cheats her out of a tip, glares at others in the restaurant or uses foul language. The dinner date allows me to see how much a man cares about me to put his best foot forward.
I have made many comments that this hobby is quite dangerous and provider references are always enough. I use my gut instinct to decide who my clients are and I have several repeat clients. A woman should always use her instincts and not worry what others think
btw, being polished and Harvard educated doesn't mean that you are a nicer person than an immigrant b/c my father came to this country and he is very honest.
What I have noticed is that wonderful, honest men like my father (asian) doesn't name call a woman a racist or a whore if she doesn't sleep with him. He simply tells her good luck and goes to the next girl that he likes.
Being a provider is a lot like dating. You don't take the first ones that come to you if you don't feel comfortable. You wait patiently and the good ones will be drawn to you and stay with you for some time. I have several good clients now. One of them, Brad, kept pursuing me for 5 months while our schedules conflicted and we finally had that public meeting. I don't skip the public meeting for anyone and since I do this part time, I have every right to decide who I want to date as I may find a man to keep permanantly.
ANY immigrant taxi driver is unlikely to be able to afford the services of an escort.
Now seriously, ANY well educated sucessful person can be dangerous no matter what his background.
Socio Ecomomic Status does not guarantee anything but I would have to say I would be inclined to be predudiced favorably towards the latter than the former.
Profiling isn't about discrimination. It is about being aware.
a woman hears on the news that a man in his forties with tattoes on his neck is the serial rapist and avoids the man in the bar that looks like him isn't prejudice against whire men.
a provider who opens her hotel door for a complete stranger for a private session b/c he is over 30 is in danger in my opinion...I don't do that
I am not interested in dating 90% of the population and as a provider I keep the same standards I had for dating but I charge money.
I still have friends of all races and still get upset when I see a rich man get away with murder and a poor man get put away regardless of race but where sex is concerned, you have to meet guidelines as I have to live with myself and I can't have sex w/ someone and turn off feelings.
I am not a machine.
As for references, some providers out there are LE and some can't remember who they were with.
Most LE and most psychos have a second job so work verification doesn't work. LE don't have badges with the work cop on them. My friend got busted that way.
I prefer to make appts with those who I would date for free so that I have a stronger case if arrested. You keep bringing up race but I discriminate against age, hygiene, weight and height and manners. Since you feel that I don't have the right to decide who enters into my body, you're excluded as well.
Intimate relationships have nothing to do with equal rights. I don't have to sleep with someone to fight for their cause to get fair housing, equal treatment in employment, or fairness in the justice system.
Rosa Parks didn't have to go sleeping around to get people to fight for her right to sit on the bus.
If a lady isn't interested in you, take the hint.
I have spent my entire life hearing men talk about blonde hair and dolly parton boobs. It didn't affect me much. If a man wanted to date only blondes at my college, I still talked kindly to him. I didn't go on repeatly about what a pig he was and how unfair it was that he didn't date brunettes with flat chests.
I have noticed and so has the media that when a black man becomes rich, he divorces his black wife for a platinum blonde (happens more than OJ). Is it fair to black women, to tell them that they aren't worth as much as a blonde one?
As for agencies, ever agency I know of asks the women who they are uncomfortable with dating.
Some women have been raped by grandpa and have age limits, some may prefer to stay hetereosexual. If you give a hot session to those you feel comfortable with and get great reviews, you stay with an agency. If you "try new things/new types of people" and the customer wants his money back b/c you weren't enthusiastic enough for him, you can get fired.
I just can't have intercourse with someone that I am not physically attracted to. Since I am in my twenties, I desire all clients to be in decent shape and clean and then I go from there with age/race/height/weight and men who give me photos get a faster response than those who don't.
I don't want a negative review from a guy who I couldn't get wet for and I refuse to fake anything.
It is a fact that a high percentage of providers have been raped, if not before they entered the hobby then certainly since then.
Are all men of color potential rapists? OF COURSE NOT!!!
Is it racist to paint all people in the same ethnic group with the same brush? YES!!!
To paraphrase Vicki's subject line, this is a very intimate business. If you do not factor the intamacy issue into this topic IMHO, your level of naivety is off the scale.
thirsty
both men who tried to force themselves on me were white men 3x bigger than me (Imagine WWE The Rock's size) and they were drug informants helping LE catch big fish so they hung around my high school trying to get high school girls to use pot and sleep with them.
That's why I am scared of really huge guys, people who are friends with LE and drug dealers.
hmm,
well I've never been raped (although there was a incedent with a cab driver last week that i have some "questions" about, but that is a subject for readers of my diary on my website, lol)
anyhoo as far as i know, i have never been raped but me and my step sister were molested by my stepfather who was a black man and a prominent religious figure in my muslim community
as a result i have issues with black men AND mulsim men as far as romanitc and sexual settings go
i also have issues with older men who try to tell me what to do or who talk down to me, it reminds me of not having a choice to say no when i was younger, and it can sometimes intimidate me and make me lash out
lets face it i have lots of issues as a result of my childhood
and i never said I didn't
and i never said alot of my prejudice does not come from that
but i am in therapy, so there is always hope
I find this entire thread rude as us providers post photos of ourselves with age, measurements up on the website and then then have to deal with all kinds of liabilities.
I don't date black guys. I have three races in me. I have asian, native american and white. My family has middle eastern family members. I have also gotten pregnant once before. Since I was dating someone, I am hoping it was his (miscarriage). Sometimes the condoms break or slip off and you pray the other person is clean. What I don't want is a baby that looks different from me. Should I put myself in a risk that will last an eternity of rejection b/c I need money right now? Malatto babies get more rejection than any other cliche. I was even pointed out in a Spike Lee movie.
Also, I normally only date certain guys as I am very petite. I ask many things about the guys before a session. Religion, age, height, weight and even have conversations with them so that I know we are going to be comfortable. I don't just open that door and have a complete stranger get intimate with me. That has never gotten me excited and scares the daylights out of me so I am more prejudice than anyone on this board but sex is personal. This is a faster way of getting a sugar daddy...not an assembly line.
I also don't see females. I can't imagine a female ever calling up when she can get it for money but I am heterosexual.
Glad, I am not basing my prejudice on a Spike Lee Movie. Hate to let you know sweetie, but is is mulatto not malatto. I will tell you some of the most beautiful women I have met are mulatto.
halle berry and mariah carey are both mixed but I want an asian/italian baby and no birth control is foolproof
I will add that I think I am the only provider I know of that has the dinner date before the session where both parties can walk out. I am not the kind of provider you call up and schedule an appt with and then have an intimate session with. I actually have to know the person as a human being before seeing them as a sex object
If some guy just wanted to give me my fee and he didn't require the "other" I would open myself to all genders, races and ages but lets get pratical. Most of the hobbyists want to get physical and $250 is not enough to put me in an uncomfortable position or in danger. I often turn down guys if I find out ahead of time that they were in prison for a violent crime or for hard drugs.
Good look in finding a love that can make you an Italian/Asian baby. Wonder if that baby will have it hard. Asian or italian? Yellow skin or olive. You go figure. If it is a safety issue, you have Birth Control and condoms. You are in a sex business right? Actually you would be my type of provider, as I like personal conversation and to get to know a person just like you. But I make six figures so, I guess you are under my price range at $250, as the top providers can charge more for this and obviously that weeds out a lot of the clients you are talking about. I wish you the best, but at the end of the day you are prejudice, and you just need to quit justifying it.
Since the classy and open minded ladies that I see charge more, I would not for a second consider scheduling her.
Never have an issue with agencies or high price indies. You see my price range. There is a reason behind providers with a higher rate, higher class.
250 is higher than the other providers in SC. If I went out of state, I would charge more so forget price as a slur
I have seen your site. I have never been interested, so you would never get $0.01 from me.
one less pyschotic male to deal with. I joined in this discussion to help Vicki out not to get loser clients. Any man who wants a woman who doesn't want them is a repulsive man. Most black men who write me know that I treat them with respect. I often tell them that I am booked with is most often the truth even for whites who write me. If a black male continues to write me, I just let them know that I haven't date one before escorting and don't feel right about changing the rules simply b/c I accept money now.
this topic isn't about you. It is about providers who want to control over their own sex lives. You don't have the legal and emotional risk when you go see a provider who you have researched. ---I do because I don't know which providers tell me the truth and which ones lie when I ask for a reference. My stomach is in knots w/o adding more obstacles into my profession
I think maybe this is the person's individual choice. I figure to each his own pretty much. I'm a Black provider from Baltimore and true, some gentleman may not want to see me because I'm Black, but that is fine as I have a mixed clientele. Some Black gentlemen may just prefer Caucasian ladies, or Asian, so be it. I have many Caucasian, Black, and Asian gentlemen that use my service.
It only matters to me that the gentlemen coming to see me are in fact "gentlemen". Anything less than this is totally unacceptable. I screen for my protection, hoping I'm not seeing a "woman hater" or God only knows what else.
As far as Mulatto babies receiving more rejection than any other, I must disagree, as I have two beautiful mulatto children who are very strong minded and shall go far in this life!! It depends upon how strong a child is, yes this is a very, very cruel world, and there are many things one most overcome in this life, but all in all things do fall into place, I believe.
That is definitely the most unintentionally humorous comment of the year to date.
And if what you "don't want is a baby that looks different from me" then pray you never have a boy.
just checked your site out, you do have the coolest photo collage I have seen and yes I am praying for a girl as I just want one and it would be nice not to get sprayed every time I changed the diaper and you can dress them up ;D
the first time I heard that word was last week from a black guy in a porn store talking about his kids
how was I to know until today?
never heard that word before.
thught that it was an official term for bi-racial
i've never heard this kind of reasoning or maybe rationalization before.
I still am attracted to men I would want to breed with....that is why I am 100% hetereosexual and turn couples down. It is all about taste. If someone doesn't like it, they can go to another provider.
Seriously, do you bug your girlfriends into dating someone they don't want to date.
It is bad enough that the government wants to interfere in my sex life and that my family keeps interfering with their opinions but do I really need the opinions of those who are who
1. might be LE
2. might be jack the ripper
3. might want to waste my time by haggling prices
4. might be wanting a session with me just to score that one time ---I also prescreen asking my clients if they are open to having me longterm
I am not advertising on this board with weekly rates or specials. I am not trying to get a high volume of clients.
I think I have the right to be selective as these men who call me wanting a certain body type and a younger woman as they are the same ones who make offensive comments about BBW providers.
My body, my right. The men who don't see me have already rejected me so it is fair play.
especially if she's working as a provider.
like 'i can't understand that marketing ploy'...
bi-racial, multi-racial are the currrently accepted terms. while it's not a highly offensive slur, saying mulatto is a little like saying 'colored'.
the first time I heard that word was last week from a black guy in a porn store talking about his kids
how was I to know until today?
never heard that word before.
that it was an official term
Maybe they have a problem with the stereotype. Who knows? But I find it an issue because this is 2005 right? I do not care if the provider is black, white, asian, hispanic, or native american, skin color does not matter. Style, intelligence, and good service is all that matters. I feel sorry for the provider because they miss out on a experience they may not get otherwise. My biggest problem with providers that only exclude blacks, is that. It is only one race of people they are excluding. That tells me a lot about the provider. For those of you supporting providers that exclude blacks because of race, think about those who idly watched segregation and discrimination occur. That's just my opinion.
Emma;
I guess all black guys bargain with you also. The wallet part has never been a problem but some people tend to think so..Your comment is no better than the lady above.
Vicki, wannarideher, and whoever else doesn't want to see black men have that right. That is their preference. I wish somebody would bury this dead horse and quit whipping it. If men don't want to see Vicki in Boston, I don't think she will shed tears over it. Same goes with any provider who doesn't see men of color. I have been in this business for many years and have never seen a black man because they all want white women. I have asked this question before and "surprisingly" never got an answer. Does that man the black men prejudiced because they won't see black providers? There are some white man who won't see black providers. Does that make them prejudiced and racist as well? I will wait for an answer, of course I won't hold my breath.
many of my black girlfriends have said that about men wanting white women.
I have noticed many athletes on tv w/ the platinum blondes barbies
Emma,
As a black male not only have you offended me as a black male, yet you have managed to really piss me off. Smaller wallets, you are such an ignorant fool. First you crawled and got blasted off the Boston board, yet not you want to berate black for smaller wallets. What vs. whites. You are an idiot.
But no name calling. We knew what she meant.. So take it for what it worth..
That was called a "tongue in cheek" comment. If it pisses you off, maybe you're being a little sensitive. Bet you weren't offended when the reference to size of Mr. Johnson on black men was offered up, now were you? Patooie to you!
I just love a thread that gets everyone worked up. But folks, sometimes you have to read all of the lines and then between the lines. Emma already stated that she felt racial prejudice had no place. Her comment here was sarcasm (not always easy to discern in writing) aimed at the post above that made reference to the age old stereotype of "size". Love Emma or hate her, at least read what she meant and not what you want it to mean.
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 8:59:06 AM
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 9:00:25 AM
this thread that she thinks race exclusion by providers is ignorant. Her post about Blacks having smaller wallets after the post about providers fearing Black men because of size, was a slap at the silliness of the poster bringing up the size issue. There have been several studies that show the myth of penis size by race is just that, a myth. For a poster that calls himself intelligent to raise it as a possibility that explains the action of clueless, trailor trash providers does induce laughter as the first response.
I have apologize to Ms. Bond for the misunderstanding.. Thanks
There is no question it was meant to be a sarcastic response to the previous post.
Relax everybody.
thirsty
The point of my "smaller wallets" comments was a subtle dig at yet another cliche about people of a particular ethnicity being trotted out.
It was not a criticism of the original poster - I did get the smiley face - and was simply following on from his rather light hearted approach.
Funny how things get taken, but race is a very sensitive issue. But, when are you back in NYC Emma, I finally reviewed you website. PM. I like a dark sense of humor. Sorry, you do not date mulatto's right. LOL.
I was watching VH1 or MTV the other night where they had black celebrities talking about dating and even they made the comment that the black females who had skin as light as a paper bag got more dates with black men than the darker skinned blacks.
This has nothing to do with segregation and discrimination. This is a power trip males are having at our expense. When a woman says "no" she should have that right.
(Outside this hobby) When I say "no" to a white man, I still hear him saying "I hear you slept with this other guy and he was a loser, so you can sleep with me" NO! I made the mistake and shouldn't have to repeat it.
While in this hobby, a white man can't just call me up and have me running to see him. He still has to answer many questions and talk to me for awhile as I only take so many clients per week.
There was a smile in front because it was in reference to the stupidity of some of the things posted. I really do not care about who a provider sees. I pay for a certain type of provider that is typically in the 350 plus range. Please get wanna a book or something, t.v. is frying her brain. Quit watching spike lee and VH1, remember is it entertainment. Most providers that exclude due to race are not the ones I want anyway, so get over it.
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 9:42:57 AM
I bring up Spike Lee and MTV b/c since I am not black, I can't speak for blacks but there are many blacks on tv that will agree that when a black man reaches a certain income, he ditches the black women and gets himself a car full of white women.
There are even jokes being told amoung blacks in SC where they talk about how Mike Tyson and Mr. T spent all their money on white women in Las Vegas. There are lots of black providers who have made comments about how their brothers chase whire women. My mom's best friend was black and she used to say that white women put up with things a black woman would kill a brother for and that was her reason for her husband running out on her for a white woman.
I talk to lots of people and this arguement is still the same. Why are all of you so interesting in destroying/harassing a woman out of business simply because she doesn't want to see you. Go about your business and get another female. There are plenty of fish in the sea. Don't call a woman a racist just because she won't see you. Some of us who are part-time only see one or two guys a week and we keep our profiles up for future clients. I am not banging on doors trying to get business. I get more clients that I can handle and have to refer some of them out so leave the KKK out of these conversations b/c there is a huge difference between putting a burning cross in someone's yard and denying a man into your body and I already have one idiot calling me KKK when I am asian,italian and native american.
1. It is not your place or even MY PLACE to tell anyone from another region that they can't post on this board.
2. If you are truly intelligent, you should be able to defeat her POV with your logical reply. When I began moderatoring this board, disagreements were commonly met with a "FU" response. Although you didn't choose to swear at wanna, you attempted to shout her down nonetheless. That type of response won't be tolerated here!
thirsty
-- Modified on 5/2/2005 5:10:23 PM
thirsty asked that everyone post on this board and I complied. What I can't stand is people who write to providers and try to dictate what our rates, clients, and menu should be. Talking down to a provider simply because she is choosy about who she sees show that you don't have any class.
I don't want your money. The fact that you try to pressure females into being with people rather than letting them come to those people by their own choice makes me sick. You are on a power trip. Everyone is attacking this poor woman Vicki who is black simply b/c she doesn't want to date blacks. Find another woman who says yes. It takes two consenting adults to have sex. Anything else is rape. Men like you think that once a woman becomes a provider, she loses the right to say no. Technically, if a woman feels uncomfortable in a private session she should be able to leave and keep the money. Because of this board, that can't happen.
Not everyone who wants to be a provider has to accept everyone. I don't take females and I have stressed that I don't take anyone I wouldn't date for free.
BTW. TV is a great way to learn about society. Books are written by one person. Oprah as far as I know doesn't date white men. Try calling her a racist.
All providers are allowed their own set of standards and selection. When we get 60 emails a week, we have the right to choose who we want. I haven't advertised on any of these posts and I don't advertise weekly specials. I have too many guys that fit my standards wanting me so I can become even pickier if I wanted to as I stay busy enough.
try having a decent attitude when a woman turns you down. You don't see real winners pushing this issue at all because they know what it is like to be persued by someone they weren't attacted to. I could send some 60yr old females over to you.
As for David Bowie and Iman, they chose to have a relationship on their own. They didn't have people telling them they had to date for one reason or another so leave me and all providers who want full control over our own bodies to decide what enters into it.
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 8:43:16 PM
Thirsty posted this topic on the Carolina board asking that we participate. The post is on NY board in order to consolidate.
I believe we have the right to choose who we see but i want to share a story....when I first started providing and i was more lax in my screening methods i set up an appointment with a gentleman over the phone..he came to the door and i opened it up and was shocked to see a dwarf!!! i was screaming in my head though i kept my outward composure i was trying to find some words but they were slow to come....He looked up at me and said"Youre not gonna kick me out are you" he was scared and shy. My heart opened at that moment...I understood alot about what I do here...there are alot of reasons men hobby..The men that REALLY need to pay for it are the ones that never get laid,the fat,the socially retarded,the shy,the unnattractive...this has nothing to do with color but these guys are special to me,EVERYBODY has the right to be touched,held,stroked,loved even for only a few minutes...its a human necessity. I consider it a privilege to be a provider...i love what i do and i love that i can give a part of myself to maybe make someone feel cared for and pampered....I am not the most beautiful pencil in the case,I was the kis they all made fun of,i was strange and awkward once.I was once over 200 lbs...one needs to stand in the shoes of another and think of what they go through..I have sessions that turn me on,I have sessions that i provide in, I am a provider. This is a very spiritual and holy profession and its not only about me....I believe in choice,my chiice is to put love in the world and what I recieve for that has no pricetag.
weight or size, you will always make the right choice. And I hope that you rocked the small guy's world )
Hi-Ho
Hi-Ho
It's off to get laid
I go.
Tally-Ho!
All in bloody good fun and no offense little chaps.
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 9:38:36 AM
including the agency owner herself. (sorry the girl is a slob. but no sorry she's a foul mouthed racist or whatever the reviewer called her).
BUT this issue sparks so much controversy and mean-spiritedness to the providers who for whatever reason don't want to see black clients?
http://theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=48608&boardID=2&page=
Your post is the one that is erroneous,mean spirited and divisive at best.
Also,it appears the agency owner and the original poster resolved the initial complaint.
Tally-Ho!
"While I was there(all of 20 minutes!) an incident with the hotel staff provoked a tirade of foul mouthed, racist remarks that amazed me."
my post is not erroneous or meant to be mean spirited. i intentionally left out names so that if anyone searches the boards THIS will not come up with agency or provider's names.
re: the meanspirited replies to providers, it discourages girls from commenting openly and honestly. that's why i brought it up.
maybe it was resolved but interestingly and curiously not even acknowledged on the boards.
because it really has no effect on the black community if white girls don't want to date black men on a pay for play or free basis. it just doesn't.
and unless the hobbiests are asking every provider they book with if she see black clients or men of color, then they are most likely patronizing providers who exclude moc.
-- Modified on 5/1/2005 11:54:25 AM
in high school, you could have your reputation destroyed by being called a slut or shallow
as an adult, you are called racist, sex offender (puts you in the same catagory as pedophiles)
people want to put you underneath them to make themselves feel better.
A woman has to have the right to screen any way she wants in this business, but I find an embargo of a race because of a bad experience with an otherwise unassociated man to be the dumbest screening standard. No woman is going to embargo me because of what Ted Bundy did, because it's clear to them that I have nothing in common with him but complexion and a dick. Why isn't it apparent to them about African Americans?
But for standards of attraction, I'll admit, I don't find Asian women that attractive. That's not racist, the initial physical passion isn't there, and I didn't make that rule. It isn't true of me with any other ethnic group.
I'd like to think and hope that for every caucasian woman who expresses No African Americans Need Apply, there's another like NetMichelle willing to work doubletime for them. That's idealistic, I know. But there are some really good women in this business.
there are one that apply restrictions. As a fact, there are far more, USA born and immigrants. If a woman ever exclude me, I would not get hot under the collar. I would check reviews and find ten ladies that will be happy to spend time with me.
As a company we hope to offer service to the largest demographic possible. Therfore, we do not discriminate. It would not make business sense to do so even if we were a bunch of racists.
However, our ladies are allowed thier preferences. ALL of our ladies that have changed their preferences in the direction from none to limited have done so after MULTIPLE bad experiences of a similar sort.
I'm NOT pointing fingers here or trying to say who is to blame. Just communicating what our experience in the biz has been. Take it for what its worth.
While your comments are . . . well chosen, your ladies may have better experiences if you chose to screen better (not saying that you don't, I don't know). However, it is evident that their multiple bad experiences are leading to pigeonhole certain types of people. Perhaps if their appointments underwent a slightly better screen, they would have fewer bad experiences.
Happier girls, happier clients, better society. Or, is that just wishful thinking
First let me say I did not take the time to read this entire thread and what I am about to say will probably be attacked by many but it is MY OPINION.
To answer the question posed "Why is any provider who will not see black men labeled prejudiced?" in my opinion, it is because there are some that are just too ignorant to understand or comprehend the difference between a preferance and a prejudice. Some of the best friends I've had and some of the best people I've known were not caucasion, but that didn't mean I found any attraction to them or wanted to be intimate with them. There have been some men of other races that I can look at and appreciate him for the attractive man he is, but that doesn't mean I'm attracted to him or wish to be intimate with him. Being attactive and being attracted to, are two totally different things. And when people quit taking every preferance and making it a racial issue, then, maybe then, the world will finally begin to be a much better place.
Now I could go off on the whole racism and prejudice issue but that would be going off on a tangent and not really on this topic, as it was specific to this hobby. So when a provider advertises that she doesn't see a particular race and any race but one, don't assume she's racist or prejudice (cause I think we know what happens when you assume) but be thankful that she was thoughtful enough to post it and save you the time you would've wasted trying to schedule an appointment and/or arriving for an appointment just to be turned away or to receive really poor service and waste your money.
this won't help me but it will help black providers out
I had a girlfriend whose father traveled from state to state having sex with black women. He supposedly produced 40 kids. She is in her 40's now but she refuses to date black men b/c she is terrified that they are somehow closely related to her and only dates white men.
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I have read this entire, quite lengthy thread, and up until now, I have been amused, interested, curious and fascinated. I have read all of your posts, and while I do not agree with your opinion in the slightest, I also thought that, as naive as you may be, those that attacked you personally, maybe shouldn't have. After all, yes, you can choose who you allow into your body.
Additionally, it seems that your ability to gather information is mostly limited to the television. You know what, that's okay too. Not everyone reads the Times, The Journal or even USA Today, much less scholarly books or anything like that. Whatever floats your boat, I have no problem. That being said . . .
Did you read that last post before you actually put it up? That has got to be the most inane thing that you have said on this entire thread!! Congratulations. You are the first person to have really annoyed me on this board!
What does your little story tell us? Nothing. What value does it bring to the topic? Absolutely nothing! Please stop before you embarass yourself anymore.
By the way, please do not think that I am not well-mannered because I used the "F" word. After all, I did censor it!
Used to I thought a provider is prejudiced for having such exclusions. Reason being, I thought most women did not go on physical appearance so it did not matter what a guy looked like. I did not factor in perhaps she has emotional baggage that leads her to require such exclusions. I did not think it mattered what the guy looked like whehter she could have orgasm(s) or not either. I like intelligent guys and they come in all shades (and absent of shade), sizes, with different challenges to overcome physically, and I have enjoyed my time as a provider by not having exclusions.
A year ago would have said providers are prejudiced, but today, feel that she should be comfortable to begin with and the guy should be lucky she is honest on her website so he does not have a bad session due to her uncomfort or insecurity for whatever reason is not the important factor. Happiness is what is important.
Jolie
I used to get offended when providers wouldn't see me because of my color. But then I realized that it's really no big deal. A woman needs to feel comfortable about who she's sharing her body with. And as others have pointed out it does NOT always mean she is racist if a provider refuses to see blacks. For example I don't usually see Asian providers but I don't have a racist bone in my body. I just prefer other types of women when it come to the hobby.
Not to mention that for every one provider that wont see me there are 20 who will. So I just choose to worry about the ladies I click with rather than the ladies I don't.