After scouring this forum, I find myself in a situation for which I can find no previously written commentary/advice from fellow SD’s. This one is blowing my mind and I would like to hear what the experts here have to say about what is going on.
Short history…I entered the bowl two months ago after being a long-time lurker here and having been a P4P guy for many years. Of course, I knew that there would be a lot to learn about successfully navigating the bowl, but with the excellent advice provided here, I entered with confidence. So far, I have had some great experiences and some that were not so good, for sure. I have nice arrangements with two college coeds and a bullpen that looks promising.
With my desire for young, college age pussy being fulfilled, I decided to look for a more mature SB to round out my experiences. I hooked up with a lovely red head on SA and the M&G went better than expected. She’s a very well put together 47yo who is slender, about 5’8” with a nice set of 34C’s and weighs 125ish. She comes across as smart, a bit sassy (she’s is a red head after all), and sane. She tells me that she’s in the bowl because her husband is only interested in having vanilla sex, maybe once every two or three months and she wants to “explore her fantasies” with someone who is more adventurous. Her hubby travels 3-4 days per week, so she has plenty of free time for me. I’m thinking, SCORE!
We made a date for two days later and this is where it started getting, shall I say, different. Dinner at a nice steakhouse goes very well with plenty of flirting and sexy innuendo. When the waiter brings the bill, she insists on picking up the tab. I had booked a room at a nice hotel near the restaurant and we had an amazing multi-hour session BCD. I have to head home afterwards and she wants to stay in the room overnight. I’m reluctant, but agree. In the morning, I stop by the hotel to settle the bill in cash, and I find out that she’s already settled the folio.
To shorten this already long post, we have had 3 more dates since the first BCD date. She has booked the room every time, she has paid for dinner and all of the social activities, and I haven’t opened my wallet since the M&G. So far, I haven’t discovered any sexual activity that is off limits and she will go and go, until I can’t go any more.
Clearly, she has turned the tables and has established herself as Sugar Mamma, versus Sugar Baby. I am definitely not complaining, but it is an extremely weird dynamic to wrap my head around. For sure, I plan to enjoy this ride as long as it lasts.
Have any of you ever experienced anything remotely similar?
Glad you decided to jump in here, and with an unusual story too! I think all of us get an ego boost when we pay for our activities in the bowl. It feels empowering to know we can afford to pay for these activities and have some awesome sex in the process, very often the non vanilla kind which we don't get at home. I imagine it would feel the same way for a woman who pays for everything! I've never been in your situation. Sounds great, enjoy! But I do see one potential downside. I have often had SBs tell me they don't want to date a guy who is cheating on his wife for fear of major drama down the road when the wife finds out. Which she almost always does! Have you thought about what you would do when your Sugar Mama's husband finds out what she's been up to? Unless she's in a very ENM, honest relationship with her husband, she's cheating, and could be a real problem for you. A SD buddy of mine narrowly escaped an enraged ex who put a gun to his head! He told me if he had not had lots of competitive wrestling experience in school he'd probably be dead.
Thank you for your reply, Sweetman! I consider you and Herbcat to be two of the most knowledgable SD's on this board, and your willingness to share and mentor some of us newbies is truly appreciated.
With regard to this gal, she is most definitely NOT in an ENM relationship with her husband. From what she has described to me, they live virtually separate lives with the exception of their close relationships with their adult children and their respective families. However, I recognize that doesn't mean that he would, in any way, be okay if he were to find out what she's up to and where she is getting her satisfaction. In fact, I believe that quite the opposite would be true. I think that he would be very upset if he ever caught on.
I'm not sure how he would be able to identify who I am if he were to come looking. I was in full "alias mode" when we met, and I've given her any of my RWI. Of course, if he became suspicious, he could follow her and catch us together. So far, and I plan to keep it this way, we have only met on days when he's verifiably out of town. I don't want to share too many details here, but his career makes it very easy to verify his whereabouts easily at any point in time.
She and I live an hours drive from one another and our meets have been arranged to take place at least an hours drive away from either of our "home turf". I call it triangular distancing, if that makes any sense. I get the feeling that she would prefer to skip the "dating" aspects of our activities and simply meet up at hotels for our trysts. I'm going to ask her about that directly in the interest of our mutual safety and the security of our arrangement.
At this moment, I feel guardedly confident that we are under the radar, and I will do everything possible to have it remain that way. I am aware that all arrangements eventually come to an end. I just want o make sure that when this one does, it is the two of us that make that decision, not her hubby or some other outside trouble that we find ourselves in.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you've given some thought to the risks involved. As long as your eyes are wide open you shouldn't be blindsided if things go awry. Best of luck and keep us informed!
@ yesyes36 47 y.o. is definitely post-Wall. I don't think woman in question is looking for money, she's looking for sex which is missing at home.
I don't think anyone over 25 should be a SB LOL
This seems like what Ashley Madison was supposed to be, but never was.
I will suggest one small angle to consider: Although you say she has been paying for the dinners and hotel (guessing she is not giving you allowance - wouldn't that be interesting?), I suggest it's actually it's her hubby that is paying - without his knowledge - unless you know she has "her own" money.
If I am correct, that may be an even bigger issue if/when he finds out. Given that they are only banging a few times a year, it's reasonable to think he is also stepping out. So perhaps he won't be too upset that you are filling in (literally) for him while he is balls deep in whatever company-intern or local barfly he has found. Some men can rationalize mutual cheating as fair play. But how happy will he be when he has to pay the hundreds (eventually thousands?) of dollars spent on the family credit card enabling you to go spelunking in her caverns? Something to think about...
But for now, enjoy being her sidepiece! Wonder if she'll buy you any flowers and some jewelry on your birthday...? LOL
Life is good
The Cat
Herb expressed exactly what I was thinking. Hubby's almost certainly going to find out. And the money trail is as likely a scenario as anything. It's often the other way around, i.e., the wife finds out her husband has been cheating by noticing unusual expenses and withdrawals. That's how my best buddy got caught, even though he swore his wife never looked at the finances. In the case of the OP, it's gonna be the hubby who notices the unusual expenditures. You are well within your rights to gently ask this SB how she is hiding the expenses from her husband. And if he owns guns.
She says she is fulfilling her fantasies. Remember the guy saying, he pays them to go away. She might have a similar philosophy -- fuck someone until you are bored of them and then pay them to go away.
.
I'm not saying she will get bored, but she's left that option open.
but meanwhile, enjoy!
I appreciate the input guys!
I thought about how her paying may be how she eventually finds herself in trouble with her hubby. So, I had a conversation with her about it and she assured me that she is a small business owner and she makes and manages her own money. I have also noticed that she pays for everything with cash, so there are no credit card receipts for hubby to find. After I booked the first room, and she paid the folio with cash, we have used day use hotels exclusively, which she has paid for in cash. The day use hotels we use don't require any payment until check in and they accept cash for the use of the room.
Basically, she is doing the same things I would do to cover my tracks in a "normal" sugar relationship (I am also married). She has certainly done her homework, and I don't believe that I'm her first with this type of arrangement. She very clearly appears to be too experienced to be a noob.
As I stated in my original post, this is a very weird situation and I don't think that I will ever get used to it. I've always been the one calling the shots because I've always been the one paying. Ultimately, whether I get used to how this arrangement is set up or not doesn't really matter in the scheme of things. Age wise, she may be "beyond the wall", but she's really hot and she takes great care of herself. She's an extremely generous lover and is open to anything I want to do with her. Although she's paying the expenses for our meets, she hasn't made any demands or shown me any red flags that would indicate that she's up to anything other than getting the sexual attention that she's not getting at home.
I really don't know, and I don't want to ask her, but maybe she insists on paying for everything so she doesn't feel like a woman who is prostituting herself under the cover of being a "Sugar Baby". Perhaps, just the opposite. Being the one who pays, may give her the feeling of empowerment. Whatever it is, I'm going for the ride as long as it's fun and stays sexy.
As Herb always says, "Life is Good."
Yes yes36 I offer you many congratulations on this score! It sounds far too good to be true but it apparently has happened to one of our own and for this I am both envious yet given the remote hope that such a possibility might even occur for me!
With regard to older SB's, while I've managed to land a few in their late 20's I've not had any success whatsoever with any under the age of 40.
I live in a very large market as well, [Los Angeles and Orange County] so when I hear other SD's say they are scoring hot SB's under the age of 25 I am dubious. I am considered handsome by most standards and in great athletic shape and look no older than 40-50 and I have found snaring anything under 26 almost impossible. I also have a well honed gentlemanly approach and pay a reasonable yet average PPM so I don't think any of those factors are in the negative.
It may just be I am new to the bowl [not yet 1 year] so time will tell.
That being said, I find older women very sexually attractive when they take care of themselves and also find them to be more appreciative and intelligent.
Adonis, I'm happy for you that you have found your niche with the older SBs you enjoy! However, success with the younger ones is def possible, maybe requiring a different mindset and approach. My current #1 arrangement is with a truly beautiful, slim 23yo who seems to crave my cock as much as I crave her pussy! She's dependable, respects boundaries, and very affordable. In fact, nearly all of my SBs have been under 25, just one I can think of was claiming to be 26 but was actually 36! And I've never had one older. Keep in mind 2 factors which at first glance would seem to weigh against me in my success with the younger ones: First, at 77, I'm much older than most guys on SA. And second, I live in Pussy Siberia where the total number of new and available SBs is so low that you lucky dudes in the target rich areas would be astounded that any success at all is even possible. Several explanations come to mind. The first is that there are some young women whose fantasy is getting together with an old guy. I can't explain it, I just know it's true. So getting older makes you even more attractive as a fantasy lover for this very rare subset of girls. And secondly, I think the youngest SBs, i.e. 18 to 23 year olds, have a lot of pent up fantasy energy about what they want to do when they get away from home, go to college, and they are eager to experience adult life and freedom for the first time, including having a mature man for a lover instead of the immature boys they've been stuck with since they first discovered their sexuality. Whatever the reasons may be, I'm very happy to have these delightful little butterflies flit into my life for a time and enjoy their company until they fly away again!
Thanks for this, Sweetman! It may just be the younger prettier ones I'm approaching are just inundated with replies from POT SD's so my advances are being lost or ignored. I find most of the younger ones to be impossibly unreliable, i.e. they don't consistently follow up, leaves texts hanging unanswered, seem to have very little concept of manners or dependability. I must admit I do like their bodies and young faces but it really does take a LOT of patience but even so I am not having much success with younger girls. I'll continue to make contact with them and try to move things forward to an M&G but up to now, the really young ones have not been reciprocal to my advances, and I have yet to figure out why. Congrats, though, on your own arrangement in finding a younger one, and at 77 it's truly astounding and commendable, especially since you live in Pussy Siberia! Keep up the great work!
I've heard this over and over again, especially from 18-26 year old hotties:
They get slammed with messages as soon as their profile publishes. And by slammed, I mean as many as 100 a day! Most of them are just stupid or one or two-word vulgarities. Real examples I've been told about, and seen on my "research" profile (24 year old blond spinner, slim, 5'3", with blue eyes and a head shot and 2 bikini pics, plus a medium-sized profile text that sounds like a college student that's had a few BF's)"
- "Anal?"
- "I have a jet, let's go to Vegas"
- "I don't pay cash, but we can vibe"
- "Do you meet at hotels?"
- "I offer $15k a month, but you need to accept in the next hour."
- "You need to be ok being part of my group." (Cultish!)
- "Let me send cash to you now. What's your account number?"
No surprise that a new POT gets quicky jaded and tired of slogging through all that BS.
So if you can't be one of the 1st 1-5 messages she gets, perhaps it's better to be the 1st non-vulgar, non-scammy message she gets a few days later.
I've even called it out in my message (when actually do send a 1st message): "Hey I'm guessing you've been slammed with all kinds of messages. Hope they didn't creep you out too much.... I have read your profile... " If possible, cite a specific reference to something in her profile next. Then the call for action" "I would like to meet you. Please take a look at my profile and let me know if you have questions or would like to connect."
Can't say I get anything close to a 100% reply rate - it's more like 5-15%. But if I do get a reply, I can usually, maybe 75%, get to texting offline.
The point is to always try to be empathetic to her experience and demonstrate that you "get it" and are actually interested in meeting her (before fucking her).
Life is good
The Cat
You could very well be right Herb, and your approach is worth trying. I've pretty much tried everything to up the response rate. The issue is not just with no reply, but it's they reply with a 'Heyyyy' or a 'Hi' or even something longer and then I will introduce myself and after a few texts they ghost. It sometimes goes to offline text, but there it's not much better, even though I'm a complete gentleman and assure them of positivity and try to move it toward a phone call or meeting, it goes nowhere. [At least most of the time.] At that point, there are further snags, such as she doesn't speak much English, or she's never available to speak by phone or meet. It's just a shit show much of the time. But I will try your approach as you've described. Personally I think it sounds more scammy to say 'Hey I know you are hammered by creeps but WAIT! I am for real!' in any way shape or form. But I'm not a 19 year old HOT POT so maybe they will see it differently. Either way I do appreciate the suggestions it's worth a series of tries.
I think it's important to understand that, particularly for new profiles, and even more for new 18-22 year old POT's, a good percentage are just tire-kicking. Even if they are naturally attracted to older man (thank heavens for fathers that were absent, or abusive, or over-protective, or whatever!), they may find that "shit gets real" when the actually start talking to a 40, 50, 60, or 70+ -ish guy who obviously wants to get some.
Add to that concept that an 18-22 year-old may still be developing self-confidence and inter-personal communication skills, and it should be no surprise when they scamper away like Babmi hearing Godzilla approaching. (See link for a fun oldie.)
So as long as your messages are sincere, and empathic to her experience, I think you improve your odds of a reply (scammers notwithstanding.).
As I have suggested in the past, we should probably measure success much more like batting averages than shooting scores (Like the guy from Turky who won Silver with zero gear beyond his weapon. Wow!). So a BCD rate of .250-375 is major league performance. It works the same with meeting civilian women in as bar. No one expects that EVERY babe in a bar or club will be willing to talk to them, let alone share a number or be DTF right away.
Life is good
The Cat
Excellent points, Herb! Yes, it's more of a batting average than anything since success will be the exception rather than the rule. I also think there are a lot of tire kickers in ALL of the age ranges, but it may be particularly so with the young 'uns. The Bambi Meets Godzilla analogy is indeed a good one, and given how things worked out for Bambi in that YT clip, it's no wonder some of these li'l gals are a bit skittish. Who can blame them for being fearful with engaging with a guy old enough to be her father when she realizes this shit just got real. Little does our little Bambi know that there are good Daddy's like us who will treat them better than any man ever has and likely ever will. That's the irony of it! Proving to them there are good men who have only their pleasure and financial security at heart, who only want to bring them to unending shattering orgasms among the rose petals and Benjamin's... to place them on the princess pedestal of erotic love....to... to.... oh hell you get my point. Even through all of these challenges ... you know...
LIFE IS GOOD!
[Okay now you have me saying it!]
I've found the formula for scoring younger ones has one main variable. Reply promptly when she texts.
Yes, I know it goes against some game theory that says a prompt reply makes you seem too desperate. But I think with the 18-22 Seeking crowd, you simply have to stay on her radar before she gets distracted and that means reply promptly.
She may be ready to meet right now, later tonight, this week, or in a few weeks. But ... my experience says if you want to bang young pussy your digits should be as ready for action on the keyboard as they are ready for action ... elsewhere. 
Now that I think about it, I can't recall a single 18yo I've banged who I didn't respond promptly to (promptly = instantly or maybe 10 mins, with instantly being better).
Rockford