Not so hypothetically speaking- say you turn a client from an infrequent hobbyist (maybe once every three months, seldom repeating with the same provider) into a regular (at least once a week, multiple hours). Good thing, no?
Now say he's really falling for you. No bones about it, you've made it clear that you have an SO, and you're just doing your "job". Still, he's made it known that he has real feelings for you. Still a good thing?
Now what if he starts to get "clinically depressed" (losing sleep, eating less, etc.) (note: NOT in the OCD, stalking kind of way) over these unrequited feelings? OK still?
Now what if he's thinking of leaving his SO.
I'm (not) just curious about the personal morality of it all: is it all fair game, or would you terminate the relationship at any point, or try to control it in some other way?
You have a responsibility to turn it off. Control it or terminate it but since you nurtured and encouraged this association you have a (limited) ethical responsibility to save him from himself.
YKSY.
...and she made it plain to him that she's doing a job, she has an SO herself and she doesn't share his feelings. She is doing her due diligence as a professional, and she needs to keep reminding this guy of the facts. If she only did a cursory reminder once, then she's really doing the wrong thing. However, the hobbyist has to take personal responsibility for his own behavior. The provider isn't directly responsible for this guy's sleeplessness and such. He's making himself sleepless. She's certainly not responsible for his relationship with his SO. What she didn't make clear is what she did to turn this guy on from a quasi-hobbyist to a weekly regular. It could be nothing more than natural chemistry between him and her. Should that be the case, and she keeps reminding the guy of the facts often, I don't see any moral problem with her keeping him as a client. Who knows what the story is with this guy. Maybe he gets turned on by pursuing women he can't have and in this context she's doing her job by filling his fantasy.
It's not a good thing at all - in any relationship - if one person has feelings which so much stronger/different than the other person's because somebody is going to get hurt.
I terminated a provider/client type of relationship as soon as I realised the situation you describe had developed. I was very fond of the guy and simply didn't think it was right to see him as a client any longer. We continued as platonic friends for a few months till he decided he needed to cut all contact with me. I lost a friend I cared about (and still do) but I believe I the right thing.
Carrie, very classy comment. It's a shame we have a big pond between us. Be safe.
You need to have a good, thorough and frank discussion with him about it. How exactly did you bring about this drastic change in his hobbying? Maybe he misinterpreted your feelings toward him in that period.
Anyway, you could try some of these things. Instead of cutting him off, cut him down. Like once every other week.
Do you have any provider girlfriends you know will show him a really good time like you have? You could be unavailable but offer the solution 'I cant this week, but my girlfriend blah blah is available and wants to meet you'.
It seems like at some point he idealized you. So you could show him the real you. Have a good row with him over some point that's been bugging you. Not to the point that it gets ugly or anything, just to let him know you're a real person and life with you isn't one long hot session lol.
Heh don't know if you'll be up for this, but try doing some unladylike things such as farting, pick your nose etc.
Or, you could just cut him loose, if you think that's best. But let him know why, and urge him to not do anything drastic like leaving his SO at least until he regains an even keel.
Because it's not.
"having real feelings". That's the place to draw the line. Maybe she already told him there was no requital, I don't know, but I know from experience from my dating days that far to many women let it go to far, leading the guy on. (I'm sure the shoe is often on the other foot as well) If the guy just doesn't get it, that's his problem. Unfortunately, guys are hardwired to believe in persistence, competitiveness etc. and go about it as if there were a prize to be won, and won't take no for an answer. This is where the lady has to be firmer and more resolute. Sorry, ladies, but once again, the burden falls on you! Put your pretty little foot down! If he still persists, listen to Carrie. Better to lose a friend than to fuck up one or two lives.
Dates falling is just really NOT NOT NOT what I want. I consider it a big TURN OFF and dangerous.
I'm here for a couple hours of relaxation, not anything more.
I still get surprised at how many needy guys there are out there that can fall even in four dates.
Serial dating as I see it is supposed to be set up strictly for the purpose to impose boundaries and limits. Sometimes I think I should only date guys from out of town just because of this.
I wouldn't even consider going past your first statement.
xoxo
Elise
It constantly amazes me how many wise and compassionate people there are on these boards.
It's not good at all. For him, that's obvious. For you, if you're concerened with anything more than money, like maintaining your humanity in a profession where that can be difficult, then it's really bad for you as well.
I have had to tell friends 'if you're hell bent on suicide I can't stop you but I damn well ain't gonna cooperate'.
As soon as a gentleman suggests that his feelings for you are flowing into his personal time and affecting his real world life, you are ethically obligated to make the line clear. It is never okay to play with somebody's heart or string them along with a hope that you may recriprocate (unless you really do share those emotions).
None of the points you outlined above are a good thing. He is being hurt in all of them.
I may have even terminated the relationship when he began visiting multiple hours a week (if I had felt that this was causing a financial strain on him or his family). The family and the real world life of a client always comes first (and certainly before any consideration of financial gain on our part).
From an emotionally ethical standpoint, as soon as a cliet divulges he is falling in 'love' with you, you are obligated to be 100% clear with them. While it may hurt them to hear the truth in a straightforward way, being wishy-washy and trying to protect their feelings now will only lead to worse heartbreak later. If you don't recriporcate their feelings (and quite frankly, if you are still seeing them on the clock, you probably don't) you need to be clear.
I usually say something along the lines of "I'm really flattered you think you feel that way for me. But I need to be really clear with you. While I do think you are a wonderful man, and I do thoroughly enjoy your company, I don't share those feelings. I can also tell you with certainty that I never will be able to love you as anything more than a person or a special friend. I will never be IN love with you, and a relationship outside of the type we have now will never be an option. (you may want to state a few reasons why it won't work, and make sure you don't use their spouse as one of them).
You may also want to point out that while they may be infatuated with you, they certainly don't love you. They may be in love with the part of you which you allow them to see, but they don't know all of you. It is simply part of the illusion we project. We provide some of the essentials they are missing in their everyday lives, but we aren't like this 24/7.
At this point, it is usually best to at least take a break from seeing them, so that they can reset the paramaters of your relationship in their minds. If they are able to come to terms with and accept the situation for what it is, then I would certainly be open to seeing them again on a client basis. But in my opinion, you should never continue seeing a gentleman who has hopes of the relationship developing farther than you are willing to take it.
woman in this business. This is a post to cut-and-paste and/or print out.
In the end, all people want to be able to look at themselves in the mirror every day and like the person they see. Being an ethical person is a huge part of this.
Thanks, Angel of Surrey, for saying what needs to be said so clearly and sensibly, with real-life examples of what to do when a provider finds herself in this situation.
You state "...while he may be infatuated with you, he is certainly not in love with you". How can you be so certain of this? And as for your assertion that they are only seeing one part of you, which is an illusion you create, I would accept that that is probably true most of the time, but I know that some relationships go farther than that, including some of the guys I know, and they certainly go as far as some civilian relationships go before getting to the point at which they "fall in love". The cynical pragmatist in me tells me that you are 100% right, but the hopeless romantic in me tells me that on at least this one point, you are not 100% right. There is the occasional exception to the rule where true love blossoms out of a provider relationship. Your post seems to rule that out. In any case, I will concede that the originator of the thread is talking about unrequited love, which is a different matter.
The Hobbyist should take responsibility for his emotional behavior. I can find no fault with a Provider who does such a good job that a Hobbyist wants to see her repeatedly and often. Although I think more than weekly appointments of multiple hours should raise warning flags about the stability of the hobbyist. It should be pointed out that in the scenario presented, the Provider makes the correct decision by making it clear that she has a SO, and she is just doing her "job". Nevertheless the Hobbyist persists in his feelings for her! For more than ethical reasons the Provider should terminate the relationship at this point!
I think this situation certainly would be less likely to occur if hobbyist understood the essence the following paragraph from your Post.
“You may also want to point out that while they may be infatuated with you, they certainly don't love you. They may be in love with the part of you which you allow them to see, but they don't know all of you. It is simply part of the illusion we project. We provide some of the essentials they are missing in their everyday lives, but we aren't like this 24/7.”
OK, I agree,no relationships or deep feelings. For a lot of reasons. But I have a question. One reads the reviews where providers have orgasms. Do they really? I'm sure it happens but what doesit take. The pleasure fo me is to do whatever it takes to give a provider orgasms. Any advice?
She needs to feel safe and relaxed, and you need to take your time doing wonderful DATY that is not too rough.
I suspect that the number of reported Provider orgasms are far greater than the actual number. Many of the reported orgasms are probably more apparent (due to great acting by the, provider although I suspect most will deny it) than real. Hey the Provider is seeing you not to get off but to get you off. My advice is to just enjoy the fantasy with a great entertainer and if it happens consider it an unexpected gift.
A legit person would have cut it off a long time ago.
He is responsible for himself, but a legit person steps on the brakes when someone runs in front of their car.
It is what good people do.