I will upload review today. I researched PSE to be sure I understood the alphabet and lets just say there was ZERO PSE. It was basically laughed at. SMH
I recently had a session with a provider who offered a VIP/PSE session. Gladly paying for extra fee, my expectations of the session and what was offered were two entirely different things. What does one expect with this type session. Needless to say, I was a bit disappointed in my time spent with provider. Going forward I will clarify what is offered yet I realize some providers take offense to that too.
It means different things to different providers and clients. So it’s important to ask her what it means to her or what extras you get. It can be anything from a trick just to get you to pay more, uncovered full service, includes Greek, includes kink services and so on.
Many women would take serious offense to that question(s) and may ignore him or worse, blacklist him. Some ladies are open books after screening is complete, but many are not. It's a major risk and one that I would not take with a woman I have not met yet. Those questions are best asked to her reviewers, or her in person at the start of the session or possibly during pillow talk time.
I love duos and I'm always open to new ladies who will indulge my fantasy. But it's the rare lady who--before we've ever met--will directly answer the question whether she will be physically intimate with another woman. I've been fortunate that ladies I've seen have introduced me to other ladies they play with, but otherwise good luck finding that out (presuming no duo reviews).
Back in the bad old days, before I found TER, a lady would hang up on you mid-sentence if you started to mention details.
If she doesn’t state in her ad or website what PSE includes, either don’t pay for it, risk disappointment, or ask. If I was so concerned it might mean no date, I just don’t pay for that service. But if I want that service, I’m not risking disappointment. I will flat out ask via email or text. If she decides to ghost me, oh well. There are other fish in the sea. I’m not so desperate to see one specific provider that I wouldn’t ask before shelling out extra beans. I understand the risk. I would rather lose out on seeing her than feel disappointed after dropping dime on her.
In general I don't think PSE should be too confusing even when it's got a broad working definition depending on the community in question. But VIP is really poorly defined and used here. So how would be "What do you mean by VIP?"
Up to her then on how to answer, or to answer at all. Seems like it might have worked out better for the OP had he asked and been ignored. But perhaps in asking, even if he got a vague answer and decided to go anyhow it would have been enough to result in something that was not as disappointing.
Pillow talk time? Might be a tad late then, and likely unnecessary as one's already go first hand experience with her VIP/PSE treatment. Asking anyone that has reviewed her make sense, if there are any and they are willing to reply.
To some guys/girls, PSE can mean anal and/or cim/swallow, to others it means facials and yet to others it may mean BBFS.
.
I have had some women tell me it isnt about any specific sex acts at all, per se, but more about louder, wilder, animalistic style of fucking with yelling, dirty and degrading talk during the act.
.
There really isn't any established definition of these terms so they are meaningless to me, by themselves. But yes, I would agree, I think "VIP" is the most problematic in terms of a mutually agree upon definition. That is so vague as to not have any meaning whatsoever.
Maybe, maybe not. OP has 167 TER reviews over 20 years. So, if he books using his TER handle the provider might not be offended to have a straight conversation with him. With that history she should be pretty sure he's not a cop. I can tell you that I've been here on TER for 15+ years with a similar amount of reviews and I've had no problem with asking experienced ladies pre-session questions, especially when I use TER DM to communicate with them.
Isnt that the point? She "might" not be offended. That leaves open the possibility she will be VERY offended. And what might she do then? No one knows.
Or bitch you out. Those are likely the worst. I highly doubt anything worse than this will come from asking what her PSE services includes. Is there something specific you would be worried about beyond these?
It’s a big no no to ask and considered a major etiquette breach by many many women. Many women even have this stated on their websites not to ask.
.
I can’t tell you what risk to take but for me it isn’t worth it. I either get the info from my research or I just pass her by. When I do ask it’s always in person after trust is built.
not going to be able to find some other provider the next day or next weak?
We've had providers weigh in on the whole national BL bit and say it is not the end (and sometimes not even the start) of the story for their screening. They know some providers will BL guys for trivial reasons (like this case would be) and just seeing a name/number/alias on the list doesn't stop them from see the guy.
And of course some provider (and mongers) seem to use the term black list to mean the provider's/agency's private do not see list. In this case, if what one was attracted to in the provider is not something they can get (or be sure they will get) that private DNS list is pretty meaningless in terms of being worried about outcomes.
Who is telling you otherwise? But asking about sex acts in an illegal industry before meeting seems ridiculous to me. That is partially the reason TER was invented right? So you didn’t have to ask providers what they offered. Read reviews, look at profiles, pm the reviewers to get what you need.
.
As far as BLs goes, some have more sway than others. Some girls view them seriously and some pay them no never mind. But look at the majority of responses just on this thread. Look at Scarlett’s response and CDLs. Two very different personalities I think you would agree. Lol.
.
One is saying don’t ask until the meet up while the other is saying ask if her menu is accurate. But both are essentially saying don’t ask the girl straight up about what specific sex acts are included. Seems like common sense to me but you and Zeel are free to pursue this any way you like. But clearly the general consensus and etiquette is to not ask. That is what the research here and other sites are for.
I'm sorry ROb but just where do I suggest anyone is telling me to do anything. I was pointing out that you're rationale for not asking doesn't make a lot of sense. Feel free to so as you wish and make whatever choices you do.
But I did ask you if you really think that someone asking, especially if they ask in a reasonable manner and letting the provider decide just now detailed she is comfortable with, is going to lead to anyone never being able to see any provider again or even have a significant impact on finding and seeing providers?
Yes, BL as just like reviews here and have all the good, bad and ugly associated with them. Correct me if I'm wrong but are you not one of those here that will generally suggest a provider not sweat it much if someone writes a bad review she doesn't think is very fair or too critical? I say mongers should take that same view of BLs.
Edit to add, I don't know if anyone else will or does, I'm not making a "you should" claim here but a general normative statement about the situation.
-- Modified on 8/26/2024 3:33:20 PM
I personally would not BL someone for asking for specifics, but if I have not seen the person before I will tell them that because of the nature of our industry I do not discuss specifics to protect myself as well as you from any unnecessary issues. If they then say that is fine, can they discuss in person, sure, we can go ahead setting something up. If they get pushy and say they don't want to book without specific details I kindly let them know I don't think we will be a good fit and would be best to locate another provider. I can see how this would be very difficult for a client if the provider does in fact have the tier pricing for PSE, GFE, VIP, etc. and does not wish to discuss upfront the meaning. I as a provider have not clue the specific definition of this shit, I can only assume you guys don't know either!!
Never seeing any provider ever again??? I never even hinted at that. Fact is there is some women who will BL a client as it’s a major faux pas. Do I think the “crime” deserves the punishment? Of course not. But it can hamper a guy especially if he is in an area without a lot of providers.
.
Zeel is in LA I believe and I see mostly NYC girls so it’s not really us that could have issues. But if you are in Indy, or Cincy or Baltimore or any of a number of smaller towns, BL or a “do not see”designation by that girl to her friends in that town can greatly reduce you’re already limited choices. I just have never felt the need to ask a girl what her services entail as I can almost always get that info quickly and easily without asking her.
I've been put on a blacklist twice. Once was because I essentially quoted the girl's raunchy ad back to her, because I wanted to make sure she was going to do those activities. She said I was too explicit and then boom on the bl for being explicit. Second time was because i had inquired for a time without also sending references bc didn't want to waste time screening if I couldn't see her, but the girl wasn't available at my requested time and asked me for references, so I told her thanks for replying but couldn't see her. She blacklisted me for that with comment, wouldn't send references.
Has that stopped me from seeing girls? For the most part no but there have been a few girls who either never reply to an inquiry or else tell me they won't see me. I didn't even know about the blacklisting until one girl told me about it and asked for details about the explicit entry. She told me that there is a lot of ridiculous reasons for being put on blacklist and when she saw both the entries for me she figured they were both stupid reasons. We met and had a great time.
Girls who abuse the blacklist make it useless for others. And because the site is on a password firewall, I can't even complain to get removed with screenshot evidence. At least with TER, providers and clients can complain and get reviews revised/removed.
I'm no longer sure which ones girls are using. But many guys are on one of them and don't even know it. And it has no effect on their seeing providers. I was on one for sure and it had no impact. Though by then I was mainly playing in Costa Rica.
I've been threatened to be blacklisted for a bad review as well. And, maybe I was. However, I have been told many ladies don't fret over a guy blacklisted over a review. I would gather it's the same if it's about asking about services. I'm not letting these types of threats/risk take a hold over me. I don't live with that kind of fear. If an escort wants to lose her shit because I want to know what VIP or PSE means to her, oh well.
And I’ll do me. But it’s not “crazy talk” to want to lessen risk in an already illegal activity. People assess risk by their own personality and life experiences. Many women have told me it freaks them out to be asked about sex acts before meeting. Even if I think the risk is low of a BL, I try not to upset women in general but especially if I want to see them but haven’t yet.
FWIW, I never ask when it's her regular service at a regular rate. It does help that I can pretty much figure this out with reviews or what's on her site. If I cannot figure it out, I likely choose not to see her. On a few occasions, I did TOFTT and I didn't ask. I would only ask if it was PSE or VIP because those can be so many different things.
But at the regular rate, things I am risking are ones I can live with not happening. I find the risk is DFK vs. LFK, FIV, and BBBJ vs. CBJ.
Some girls it's Greek. Others bare. Some it's just more sex time. Or rougher sex like in a porno. Many girls it's just a upcharge for no value
I wouldn’t pay for the extra service unless it was clearly stated on their website what is offered with the upgrade or if it was with someone I’ve seen before and therefore knew what was offered bc we had discussed it previously in person. I have no expectations of what it could mean bc everybody is different.
pay the basic up front .... then once together .. as things progress you can also decide if you even want the extras ... plus at that point they will be clearly outlined ...
i put this in the never pay a deposit / advance category ... in all my years anytime i paid in advance or paid for a vague promise , when it came time to provide it didnt happen. ..always an excuse or simply they just avoid. after all you have no leverage and the girl knows it. sad but true. please know i appreciate and value the ladies but on this topic that behavior is nearly universal its just part of the hobby to understand.
The irony with your suggestion is that whether it makes sense depends on how pse is defined. If he is looking for anal or bbfs, then it might be too late given that preparation in some form might be needed.
Buddy-I am a gawd damn hooker and I still don't know what any of these are supposed to mean. With me you get "regular" or dominatrix. Once you get here we sort out of the details.
Understood. I find you quite attractive only wish you were near. Yet please in the future, “buddy” hate that label.
-- Modified on 8/26/2024 7:21:15 AM
That was an extremely polite response. lol
You have been deleted from the buddy list. You will be "pal" or "friend" going forward. 
xoxo
Scarlet
Excellent AND funny. Friend.
djrunner,
First of all, you gotta speak to the Provider and ask for the specific definition of all of her service. and do not assume that last minute dates are acceptable
I will be sure to have better communication with provider for sure. This date was set up weeks in advance though. Tough lesson to learn though.
So what actually happened? What were you expecting and what did she provide?
I will upload review today. I researched PSE to be sure I understood the alphabet and lets just say there was ZERO PSE. It was basically laughed at. SMH
Wow. I had no idea that a client would even consider BBFS as an inclusion in a PSE experience.
And I’ve been doing this a minute.
Not saying I am denying that some are choosing to bypass protection but I am not aware of any “experience” that automatically includes this act.
Personally I think services you would potentially expect in PSE sessions would be anal, COF, CIM/swallow, more dirty talk and depending on the provider maybe some deep throat/gagging, spitting, overall rougher and raunchier play, stuff like that.
I’ve also heard the term GFE+ used to describe a softer more affectionate experience with the addition of CIM and/or anal but without the overall porn-style tone of session.
I have seen girls offer service/menu based pricing in the past, and in those cases MSOG may have been an additional charge, but I don’t recall ever noticing MSOG being associated with PSE, that sounds like a last minute excuse.
I've even heard guys suggest that GFE should include BBFS because, after all, you bareback your girlfriend in real life.
I go into each appointment with someone I've never met previously with zero expectations, or rather, minimum expectations. I take info in a woman's profile with a grain of salt and consider many things to be YMMV. If I am attracted to the way a lady looks and her personality I figure I'll have fun regardless and for me it's worth a try. Worst case is I won't see her again, but that has been a rare occurrence. I've only been disappointed a small handful of times in 7 years.
I have had women do things with me that all of their reviews state they do not do. I have also had at least one woman insist on doing something with me that I didn't ask for and that she charges extra for. I've also gotten OTC time with a number of women, and I'm not just talking about 10 or 15 minutes. From my experience, it would seem as though good hygiene, kindness, respect and an accommodating attitude go a long way towards having a great time.
is to ask when you are booking if there are any services on her TER profile that are longer offered. If there are things on her profile that she no longer does, then let her know that when you write the review, you will correct her profile, so there is no confusion among other customers who might see her expecting to receive all of the services listed in her profile, as you did.
Yep, that’s what I do. When I first contact her to get screened I’ll just politely ask if she still offers everything on her TER profile. I’ve never had any pushback on this and I think it’s the most reasonable way to find out ahead of time how my expectations will go.
However, even before I contact her to get screened I’ll usually contact a couple of her most recent reviewers just to make sure that those activities are still the norm. Sometimes the profiles don’t get updated through the review process so messaging a couple of her latest reviewers will give me some peace of mind going into the session.
My unsolicited advice to any newbie reading this is to pay for, or write legitimate TER reviews, to get VIP and do some basic research before seeing someone for the first time. IMHO, it’s absolutely worth the money, and or time, and will give you a lot more assurance going into a session and most certainly save you from disappointment along the way.
....Take the time for research and back channel communication and you'll be greatly rewarded with a more fulfilling experience. There's about a dozen guys (and gals) in my part of the country that I communicate regularly and have also been around for years as well and it's awesome having the ability to not only draw on their experiences but to be able to give them a shout out for new opportunities or dangers ahead.
I recommend a slightly different wording. Although very general, it should be obvious that "Is your Profile up to date?" is probably asking about Services and not about "Hair color."
.
Some might consider that asking about "services" or "offerings" is too explicit and might be worried about an LE trap (and decline to see you).
.
"Up to date?" is very innocent and general but she should understand what you are asking about.
Yep, that’s what I do. When I first contact her to get screened I’ll just politely ask if she still offers everything on her TER profile. I’ve never had any pushback on this and I think it’s the most reasonable way to find out ahead of time how my expectations will go.
However, even before I contact her to get screened I’ll usually contact a couple of her most recent reviewers just to make sure that those activities are still the norm. Sometimes the profiles don’t get updated through the review process so messaging a couple of her latest reviewers will give me some peace of mind going into the session.
My unsolicited advice to any newbie reading this is to pay for, or write legitimate TER reviews, to get VIP and do some basic research before seeing someone for the first time. IMHO, it’s absolutely worth the money, and or time, and will give you a lot more assurance going into a session and most certainly save you from disappointment along the way.
Good point; I’ll phrase it this way from now on. Thx for a solid tip.
unfortunately for the OP, PSE and BBFS are not on TER's services list.
It's also unlikely, IMHO, that back-channeling with a monger you have no contact history with would answer, particularly since she doesn't advertise this service and it's not mentioned in her prior reviews.
with limited reviews and little to trade in the way of information about providers. Personally, I have only had a handful of guys fail to respond to PM's from me. I always tell them that if they ever need info about girls I have seen, I will reciprocate. With that said, I have a network of about 60 guys in my area (SoCal) who see two to four girls a month. Many date from a prior review site that closed down in 2015 and have since moved to TER, so it's not all that hard to find SOMEONE who knows about a girl I'm thinking of seeing, but I agree with you that it can be YMMV when trying to get additional info from reviewers.
I personally would avoid employing a tiered service provider. Because I am not going to pay for the top end, and therefore I already know the session will be constrained and she'll be gate keeping which will be off putting.
.
There are plenty of gals who give it their best shot every time.
Lester got it right.....
The only thing you need to know is, what is the rate for the time you want to see the gal. If you like her ad and her reviews are good enough for you, and the price is right, Go for it. That's the absolute last time any fee should be discussed. If there's a "VIP" add on, find yourself a new girl.
Otherwise you'll be disappointed every time. If she's a good provider she'll bring her A-game without the "VIP upgrade"
If she's an upseller, you chose the wrong gal.
but apparently limited your booking conversation to PSE.
Live and learn.
You should have been more clear before handing over the donation.
She should have refunded the PSE upcharge, especially if even her version wasn't honored.
VIP = GFE
Elite = PSE + BDSM Pleasure Mistress
Taboo Fun 🤩
* I have never offered BBFS it’s not an options. PSE for me personally means anal + CIM. There’s always an upsell if you’re offering more.
If you offer videography & photos that’s also an extra fee. Totally nothing wrong with offering more fun options. Taboo fun for me is 💩 most providers won’t cater to because it’s a lot. lol Smile for me!
-- Modified on 9/3/2024 10:00:47 AM