With $800-1k being more common among the top ladies, and some fetching $1200-$1500, and even more, for one hour, I can't help but wonder if there is a price point where ladies who never thought they would consider the hobby, say oh fuck it. Or is the price point a non factor to entering the escort world?
At first thought, it would certainly seem to be more of an enticement to enter. But then I thought, are civie women really keeping tabs of the rising pricing in p4p? That might be a bit of a stretch.
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I think it may be more of a situation where women who were going to get in eventually anyway, may say to themselves that the money is just too good to pass up any longer.
You're right, the average civie is not keeping up. So it would have to be a scenario where they found out but were not looking. A few ideas come to mind. Civies who are friends with escorts might hear about it from them. They might hear about it from their guy friends. They could get approached by a guy at a bar or club with a "how much would it take" question. 10 years ago when finding a top escort for $300 hour wasn't hard, this question might have gotten laughed at if she replied, "$3000 for the night." But these days, a guy who is willing to shell out for an overnight, might very easily look the civie in the eye and say, "deal." Now whether she really follows through or not is another story. This could be a bluff call where she wouldn't do it no matter what. More likely, she slaps him in the face when he asks the question and doesn't give him a price. But I have to imagine that there are non escorts out there who couldn't refuse an offer for a nice chunk of money. And, this could be a Gateway to getting into the biz.
This happens all the time on IG, it is a underground world that is openly talked about. Rappers call it "getting flown out." Models (or wannabes) post their pics on Instagram, guys with money slide into the DMs and start conversations. Offers are made and never discussed again. Modeling usually doesn't pay well yet these girls have designer brands and hang out in expensive places. How else can they afford it?
Not at all a surprise. About 20 years ago, I used to do this on Myspace. Usually, they were local. Some wanted to go out on a date, some wanted to just come over, or me come to them, and fuck. These ones were not really pay for sex so a little different.
But a few were far away and were all about me flying them in, and it was understood that flying them in meant we were fucking the whole time and I was buying meals and taking them shopping. It would cost me maybe $1500-$2000 for 5-7 days.
No, they absolutely are not. My family doctor's assistant asked me how much I get an hour (they all know what I do for a living) and when I told her 250 she almost fell out of her chair. She said "guys actually pay that much?!?" LOL I did not have the heart to tell her that I am WAAAYYY on the low end or she would have quit right there!!!
Seems like over the last few years I’ve seen more porn stars get into escorting.
The industry has changed a lot since Jenna Jameson signed her $1M exclusive VIVID contract. Most porn stars don't make that much money from porn and they don't get royalties. Most porn sites don't make much money either (because of pirating and tube sites). Most sources indicate average pay for a woman is like $1K/scene with top performers getting $2K. They probably make more hourly fucking a client than they make while on set. Sources indicate that women get fewer bookings these days. Also, there are a few porn stars who started with escorting before going into OnlyFans and mainstream porn who never stopped escorting. It used to be very taboo but these days nobody seems to care. I'm surprised how many women on the front page of PornHub openly escort these days.
I can still remember porn stars such as Lisa Ann bashing escorts as losers and bottom feeders. She was not the only one. In their minds, porn and stripping were ok, but escorting was beneath them.
Judging by the couple of documentaries I've seen lately about the porn industry, the economics just don't seem attractive. And my guess would be that, unlike porn actresses, escorts aren't routinely asked to do DP, gangbangs and similar outre performances.
Porn's attitude change towards escorting mirrors societies attitude change. It's all thanks to the internet and rise of the independent provider. Before Craigslist and online advertising, most escorting either involved dealing with streetwalkers and their pimps, seedy underground brothels or taking the chance on calling an agency/village voice. It was very dangerous and risky for the escort and client, which gave rise to its seedy reputation. When it moved online to CL and review sites popped up, the reality immediately shifted. The pimps are gone, the escorts and clients are meeting safely in hotels. The reality of the job changed. The perception changed from "desperate, drug-addled woman exploited by pimp" to "empowered, independent and entrepreneurial escort."
I think MILF boom in porn in the aughts helped push things. A lot of the legends from the 80's and 90's aged out and turned to escorting. They missed out on the contract star era, when Vivid Video was making bank with DVDs and the Internet. Unexpectedly, they had a career resurgence as the MILF/Mature category exploded once people started pirating the older porn vids online. However they didn't stop escorting after making a comeback, they just leveraged their newfound fame into higher rates. Nina Hartley seems like a very good example of this path. Meanwhile, Lisa Ann came up during the contract star era and was able to transition to MILF porn without ever aging out/being forced into retirement.
It seemed to grow slowly from there until 2008/2009. The financial crisis, tube sites, pirating and the death of the DVD meant the end of the contract star. Attitudes changed as porn revenues dried up and other women had already done both. The final nail in the coffin was COVID, when all the escorts turned to OnlyFans and some turned into porn stars. Nicole Doshi is a great example of this. Fuck-a-Fan contests definitely blurred the line as well. Nowadays it seems most porn-stars either currently escort or have escorted at some point.
Anyway thank you for coming to my TED talk!
Did someone say TED Talk?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJRBx0JjM_M
What do sex workers want? | Juno Mac
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7xLfeTytns
What a sex worker can teach us about human connection | Nicole Emma
Thanks for posting this! Both of these TED talks are excellent!! I have shared them on X. 
saw these high prices advertised and wanted to get in on the action. They usually get a rude awakening when they find their own pussy with limited experience is not worth anything close to what professionals with many years' experience get, and when they finally find where THEIR relative price point is, it's not as attractive to them as it seemed at first blush. A new girl will feel like a slut at $300 an hour, but she will feel like an "elite escort" at $1000 an hour. They don't want to do it if they will feel like a slut, and there is no way they will last more than a week charging $1000 with no experience. Reality is often a bitch. Lol
-- Modified on 7/23/2024 2:24:53 PM
There is a lot of evidence that a lot of women have entered sex work over the past few years, especially during the COVID boom. That being said I met a handful of women when I hung out at sex/swinger clubs that decided to become escorts. They usually started in one form of sex-work, like camming/OF/stripping, before "graduating" to FSSW. They were always very promiscuous and adventurous in their private life before getting into FSSW. Some of them also did a lot of cocaine. Most of them go into it for the money but its definitely easier to be a whore if you're already a slut.
Interesting that you mentioned girls you met in sex/swinger clubs had taken the leap into the world of sex for pay.
I have found that our business is typically looked down upon by these folks and the times that I have attended clubs with clients we always made up cover stories about our “relationship” ahead of time in order to avoid being harassed or even excluded from the premises entirely.
You're right, there is a lot of hypocrisy, contradictions in that scene when it comes to sex work, lots of smoke and mirrors. Some sex clubs actually hire women to be "hosts." They'll act like a regular guest or a type of promoter but it is pretty clear they are getting paid to have sex with other patrons of the club. This is kind of frowned upon, however.
Most of the clubs I spent time in were a bit more progressive and queer focused (I myself am bi) so it was a different scene than your typical sex/swingers club. Swingers can be surprisingly conservative and judgmental. They don't like single guys, they think they have no "skin in the game." They think your clients are taking a short cut and they're not fans of the subterfuge involved as well.
-- Modified on 7/26/2024 12:50:45 PM
Wife starts packing her bags in a fury over the latest outrage from husband. Says to husband:
I'm going to Vegas!
Husband: Why?
Wife: Because I can get $500 a pop for what I've been giving you for free!
Husband hurriedly starts packing.
Wife: Where are you going?
Husband: Vegas. I want to see you live on $1,000 a year.
Lucky for us (reviewers), there must be 50 ways to start providing… Make a new plan Stan! Jump on the bus Gus! Don’t need to be coy Roy! Just listen to me! (SB, porn actress, wannabe OF star, stripper!)
The job is sales! And it’s harder than it looks! Top 1%, $600 per session, top .5% $1000+ per session. Top earners - need looks, skills, acting ability, personality and organizational skills! In industries I’m familiar with, top salesmen make $500/hour 2000 hours per year or $1mm, superstars make $1000/hour or $2 mm per year! It takes them at least 10,000 hours to get to that level of expertise - say 5-10 years minimum. They are working on all cylinders in all categories to do it.
I met girls charging )400 pre Covid, now charging $800 - these girls are masters! One went from $600 to $1200! Again a real pro. One at $400 pre Covid stated desire to get to $600, now she’s at $500. Good but not great! I also know a kgirl who was grossing $300k per quarter pre Covid at $250 a pop! Like I said, 50 ways (to earn a good money providing)!
I end where I began, thankfully high rates attract a wide swath of interested parties, and we welcome all comers!
Sales & Marketing is all about perception, making the customer(s) believe what you want them to believe so that they will part with their money to the tune of whatever you are asking.
This is the same with providers/escorts/sex workers....am I even allowed to use the words Prostitute anymore?
As this thread has elaborated, since around early 2000s when Myspace started the huge shift in social interaction and made it infinitely easier for all types of people, particularly women, to develop and morph into things they otherwise never would have, sex work has exploded.
Furthermore, as has been discussed in numerous other threads, the role, influence and impact of Pornography on the Internet since 2000 cannot be overstated. As was mentioned above, today's porn hubs and free sites showcasing the "starlets" and the movies themselves has "normalized" so much of this behavior for women of all ages (selling sex, selling their bodies and their "personalities") ..........PLUS normalizing and making commonplace the actual sex acts themselves which used to be Verbotten or severely limited in the world of providing sex for money (i.e. DFK or even LFK; COF, CIM, BBBJ NQNS not to mention all manner of GREEK services.)
420smoka nicely summed up and encapsulated the economic realities of Porn for most porn starlets, and how it segues into a real life revenue stream/income IF she plays her cards right and doesn't self destruct.
The actual Prices for all of this "providing/selling sex" follow normal economic patterns and rules; Pricing will be at what the market will bear. As long as there is one sufficiently lonely, desperate, horny MOFO out there willing to pay whatever the top prices are for providers in their local area, then the prices will never go down, they will remain the same or even continue to increase....
Part 2 of this discussion is coming in a different thread because it truly is a different discussion:
In "Pricing" themselves, Providers must choose (either knowingly or not) whether they offer sex & themselves as a "Commodity" or as a "Service"; This is crucial and will be discussed in the next thread....
Most girls I’ve known came into the business because they had a friend who was involved or they were otherwise involved in the industry as a stripper, cam girl, nude model, etc.
The money is definitely a motivator but I haven’t known anyone whose only catalyst was the money.
In my case I started as a stripper. In fact I had actually applied to waitress at a strip club, but I believe the ad was a bait and switch as when I arrived for my interview there was no waitress position open but they needed dancers and someone called in sick so could I please start immediately, lol.
Initially I would never have had sex for money, I was a “dancer” and above that. But the offers kept coming and eventually I realized what I was leaving on the table!
I started at a lower price while I built my skills and gradually moved up until I found a balance of volume and type of clientele I was seeking.
One thing that I have experienced personally is that I was much busier at a lower price point, but I had a decent percentage of clients that weren’t my type. The guys who come on here and call me a hooker or whore, who state that I’m there to solely service them and they don’t care about my experience, those are they gents that typically don’t pay the higher rate so I don’t have to see them. I don’t fault their approach except that it isn’t for me.
While the money can be very good in this business it is not always predictable or guaranteed and there are expenses like any small business. To be independent you need to be somewhat responsible with budgeting and savings or you shouldn’t leave your traditional employment.
This is a good breakdown of your experience and it makes a lot of sense. It's like diving into cold water. If you know it's cold, you are more likely to dip your feet in and slowly make your way in. Some will decide it is too cold for them and never go in after testing the waters. Very few just dive in. Since escorting is Taboo, and I would say on the higher end of that spectrum, it makes sense that many get there through a gateway like stripping. I have known others who started off as waitress' at strip clubs before stripping. I actaully had a femal friend in college who did exactly that.
Very good post. I was having lunch with a great friend who is also a provider just this week. She often talks to me on a business level, advice, strategies, market etc. We had this (almost) this exact conversation.
Although I'd consider her still new-ish to the industry, less than 2 years, she has really done extremely well. Rightfully so, as she is a gorgeous lady with a great personality and a body like a back road! During our discussion, she tells me that, the lower price point (lets say less than 500) was actually good for business and she was busy, but just like you said, attracted...maybe more clients that were not really her type. Her screening is a bit different so she was able to sort some out but not always. This resulted in about a 60/40 mix. 60% good clients that she said would love to see as regulars. 40% were maybe not "ideal" clients for her.
She moved to a higher price point a few months back (let's say greater than 800) and found that the client mix went further in the wrong direction, for her taste in ideal clients. She tells me that the earnings were fantastic! However the clients were much (much) older and according to her, many had a more difficult time which resulted in a lot more work to make things happen. This resulted in less clients, good earnings but say 80% not her ideal client.
Her struggle is finding that optimal mix as you pointed out. She too enjoys what she does which is why she has done so well, but she really wants the best possible client mix for her liking. Well.........That can be tricky but also not entirely impossible.
My advice to her was, you should enjoy what you do but no matter what business you are in, your client base will never be perfect. I suggested a more medium price structure in which she has since put in place. This may alleviate some of the 40% mentioned earlier (not all....but i believe at least half) and still attract the 60%. Her unique screening process gives her the option to hand select some of the older gentleman if she chooses to do so. In those cases I suggested that she simply rate a 90 min session (nothing less) to give the client additional time if needed. This keeps her price structure consistent, achievable for clients she enjoys seeing and a little more profitable for her for clients who take more time to "enjoy" the session. And those chosen at her discretion.
She has had this in place for only a few days. I look forward to seeing how this works out. We talk weekly but I think the best indicator of how this structure works will take at least 6 weeks or so.
Curious about her unique screening process…
I know that I tend to adjust my screening requirements based on each individual situation and over the years I have developed strong feelings or instincts that help me decide who I am interested in seeing. When I first started, this wasn’t the case - I experienced everything from no shows to pranks to unpleasant and even dangerous situations.
Even when I’m at my “happy” price point I still turn down clients at times, and I probably end up missing out on a handful of decent ones as well.
Basically.... she sets up a quick meet and greet with every new client whenever possible. Which can be very time consuming but it seems to work for her. She keeps it at like 15-20 min. max. During the meet up she gets references or TER info etc. If they act weird during that time, she simply finishes up and later declines. If the guy is simply not her cup of tea she'll do the same.
I saw a gal in Connecticut a few times. The first time we met she insisted on having lunch first. I told her that would be out of my price range and she told me that the time would be on her, just that once.
So I met her for lunch and we had a blast. Great conversation the whole time. She later admitted to me that she uses the lunch as part of her screening. She told me "you wouldn't believe how many dates don't get past lunch".
She was very low volume and had a regular job, so the loss of money wasn't much of an issue for her, plus at least she got a free meal out if it if the client didn't pass muster.
That's really a great way to screen. I suppose it's not popular due to being somewhat time consuming. Her meet ups are short. Coffee shop style setting. I think she sets up to appear to be working and then sets up 2-3 meet ups while she is there. It's really a pretty good plan.
This is essentially what most sugar babies do but many of them charge for the first date. Some escorts offer paid social meetups. I think most providers avoid this because guys will take advantage of the screening process to get a free date and the opportunity to talk to a hot girl for a few minutes.
I like this method of screening very much that Holystone has outlined here! it makes total sense to me......
I would gladly PAY for lunch or dinner (high end of course, something nice and delicious) with a provider as basically a first time meet and greet to simply test the chemistry and get really into the other person's head. The client/Guy pays for everything, and then the provider leaves and sends a message as a "Go / No Go" type message and its over....screening accomplished.
Now everyone else can tell me why this will never work.....
It CAN work, but I'm sure some creeps would be on their best behavior during the meal, so I'm sure some ladies would object to the lunch/dinner being the sole form of screening.
A short shot at it is probably best. 10/15 minutes don't give the guy a ton of time to put on a show (so to speak).
The ladies instinct will have to be on duty! It's not a full proof plan but is a solid one 90% of the time.
Time is money. I know some Providers who would not do this unless they were paid their normal rate. Some advertise social hour at a smaller rate but I'd be you'd be hard pressed to have this idea go mainstream.
Do a search and read comments on this board about what providers think about "timewasters." If you build up a long-term relationship as a regular customer, there are providers who will treat you more like a friend and do things with you OTC, but expecting a provider that doesn't know you and hasn't yet seen one dime of business from you to meet OTC just makes you look like a cheap ass trying to score freebie time. You need to learn how everything works so you don't ask such stupid questions. Past discussion board threads are a great place to learn.
With that said, I have only had one provider in 15 years suggest I meet her OTC BEFORE being a customer. She said she found me on TER and wanted some help with her business. She was an Asian-American indie but wasn't getting the volume of business she had hoped for, so over dinner she asked for my help in introducing her to some of the Kgirl agency bookers so she could try to get more work. After I helped her, I still saw her a few times as a customer.
Obviously, you can see the difference here between what you are proposing and what I did on an OTC dinner date with a girl I hadn't met yet. During the rest of my hobby career, the only OTC time I got was with girls I had already spent thousands of dollars with as a regular customer. That's the way this biz works. It's about the money, but you can still be friends with business associates of any stripe. What you want is a Newbie pipe dream.
lol
-- Modified on 7/30/2024 5:44:02 PM
has no substantive response, it's a surrender. Bitch-slappings are never pretty, but sometimes they are necessary to enlighten someone to read the room before they keep posting bullshit. In one of your posts, you even referred to your own posts as bullshit. Hopefully, we are now ALL on the same page and we can expect more relevance out of you if you decide to stay here.
Maybe it’s not the rate that needs tweaking but the packages offered?
For example, does she like longer appointments?
They tend to attract the same kind of gent…
If so maybe she could consider a 3hr min?
C
Very good post. I was having lunch with a great friend who is also a provider just this week. She often talks to me on a business level, advice, strategies, market etc. We had this (almost) this exact conversation.
Although I'd consider her still new-ish to the industry, less than 2 years, she has really done extremely well. Rightfully so, as she is a gorgeous lady with a great personality and a body like a back road! During our discussion, she tells me that, the lower price point (lets say less than 500) was actually good for business and she was busy, but just like you said, attracted...maybe more clients that were not really her type. Her screening is a bit different so she was able to sort some out but not always. This resulted in about a 60/40 mix. 60% good clients that she said would love to see as regulars. 40% were maybe not "ideal" clients for her.
She moved to a higher price point a few months back (let's say greater than 800) and found that the client mix went further in the wrong direction, for her taste in ideal clients. She tells me that the earnings were fantastic! However the clients were much (much) older and according to her, many had a more difficult time which resulted in a lot more work to make things happen. This resulted in less clients, good earnings but say 80% not her ideal client.
Her struggle is finding that optimal mix as you pointed out. She too enjoys what she does which is why she has done so well, but she really wants the best possible client mix for her liking. Well.........That can be tricky but also not entirely impossible.
My advice to her was, you should enjoy what you do but no matter what business you are in, your client base will never be perfect. I suggested a more medium price structure in which she has since put in place. This may alleviate some of the 40% mentioned earlier (not all....but i believe at least half) and still attract the 60%. Her unique screening process gives her the option to hand select some of the older gentleman if she chooses to do so. In those cases I suggested that she simply rate a 90 min session (nothing less) to give the client additional time if needed. This keeps her price structure consistent, achievable for clients she enjoys seeing and a little more profitable for her for clients who take more time to "enjoy" the session. And those chosen at her discretion.
She has had this in place for only a few days. I look forward to seeing how this works out. We talk weekly but I think the best indicator of how this structure works will take at least 6 weeks or so.
is not really posted rate but rather the change in income. Even at 5000 a pop (forget time, just act) I can see a lot of women that are making 200K and more a year would likely not see it as a viable option. That certainly changes for a woman making 5K a year and trying to feed a child.
I do also think that personal values will matter, not everyone has a monetary price at which they will do something they don't think is right or perhaps socially questionable.
That said, sure there are definitely some ladies that are no the edge and if aware of some price or offered some price could be inticed. What's the old joke.
Guy: If I give you a million dollars will you go to bed with me?
Woman: Sure, I'll sleep with you for a million dollars.
Guy: Okay, what if I give you $50?
Woman: (indignatly) What, do you think I'm some kind of whore?
Guy: We already established that. We're just negotiating the rate.
Let's not forget about the guy who had quick sex with a lady then paid her for her service.
She complained... Hey this is Monopoly money! Whats up with that? He replied well those are fake tits right? Here is your fake money!