I've read numerous posts about providers (Memphis Monroe, Taylor Rain & Veronica Rayne as just some examples) that don't see "Men of Color." It's the absolute right for providers to see who they wanna see or who they don't wanna see. But if that's the case, then the providers should put that on their website/ad/or whatever to save the embarrassment for the hobbyist and to let people know in advance. It's common courtesy. And it's business.
A number of providers in NC let prospective hobbyists know IN ADVANCE that they only see "Caucasian Men" by indicating it on their website/ad. I humbly suggest that the porn providers that have this (IMHO ridiculous) policy to indicated it beforehand.
To those hobbyists that wanna bemoan the porn providers that have this policy, I suggest that you don't buy their products, watch their vids, or financially support them in any way. That's the only thing you can do, really. Not a boycott exactly, just don't support people that don't support YOU. Simple.
That being said, I personally think that the "No Negro" policy is bullshit, but that's just my humble opinion. I'm not going to get into a protracted heated discussion about racism or whatever in the industry (I'm not MLK), because there's nothing you can do about it, except for what I said above. Just don't support them, that's all. Personally, I always ask in advance in an email if there's a problem as far as race is concerned. The only negative feedback I had ever had was with Veronica Rayne (No big loss).
Now on a lighter not, there are PLENTY of porn providers that don't a damn about race or things like that (Stevie, Ashley Shye, and Katja Kassin are just some examples). Speaking of Katja, here's a pic of a truly giving provider, no matter what you look like...
Zartan
Most of the agencies I have used ask about age, height, weight, employment, and color. What are your views about women who prefer tall men, older men, thinner men, or employed men in addition to their preferences about skin color? Should women who only want to be with other women also be boycotted and told their preferences are bullshit?
If you are completely honest with yourself, would you be equally as outraged by a woman who preferred only black men?
I absolutely believe there should be a boycott. I think every woman (provider or not) should boycott any man who doesn't think women (or men) should be allowed to decide what they can and can't do with their bodies. I think trying influence what people do with their bodies should have gone out with slavery.
These women that dont see black men clearly are racist. They are judging a group based on skin color. The debate shouldnt be if they are racist; they are racist. Dont be naive and call it "preferences". But for example if a lady says that they dont see men under 30 that can be viewed as being justified. Why? Because age can be associated with maturity. That has medical proof to back it up. However not see any black man is just racist. And if everyone really cared about racism then the non-blacks would also boycott these women.
If said women know that by limiting their group of customers to only one race they limit the amount of money they can make. Or if they reason they can afford to lose the money, because in their opinion not that many Blacks would come to them anyway.
And about the racism issue, it's not up to the non-potentially offended group to determine whether or not something is racist, it's up to the potentially offended group. So when something like this racist policy against Blacks of Memphis, Veronica, or others arises, only Blacks get to determine whether or not it's racist. Not the group doing the offending.
The same with any issue that would affect another specific group, it's up to them to determine whether or not something is offensive to their group, and them alone.
-- Modified on 12/7/2008 7:45:24 AM
I would like to think that if something is racist, it would be something that everyone, regardless of race could agree that it is in fact racist. (ovbiously that's not the case since each individual views things from their unique perspective.)
Also the idea that only the "potentially offended group" gets to determine whether or not something is racists, almost sounds like you think that everyone of one race thinks alike (which i just mentioned isn't the case obviously).
When Don Imus said some ignorant Sh!t about Rutgers I didn't have to go around asking black women if it was racists or sexists. I'm a white guy but I was offended even if it doesn't affect me the same way it might a black woman, or more importantly one of the baskeball players on that team.
You just venting here? That's OK, see those ladies who will see you and boycott the rest. I've had enough whining about racism. It exists, deal with it. It gets cold in the wintertime, you either deal with it or move south. The world would be a better place without racism, but that's not going to completely happen in the foreseeable future.
Just as you have the right to select who you see, providers should have the same right. I admire the ladies that put restrictions on who they see (whether it be age, race, body style, etc) rather than going ahead and seeing a person they aren't comfortable with, and putting in a lack luster performance in order to get the guys money. As you stated, if a guy doesn't like her policy, then you definately have the right not to buy her DVD's etc.
Where does Asians, Hispanics, Latinos, South Asian Indians fall in the scheme of things?
A serious question since I don't belong to Caucasian or African American binary situation.
I always ask if they don't mind a more mature client when making my first contact. It hastens the process and there are no surprises when the door opens.
We have an advantage in that we know what a girl looks like, how she performs, and oftentimes personal details from interviews and bios. Help lessen the girl's surprise by asking about her preferences and giving some basic information about yourself. You're sure to have a better session.
Precisely. I've learned the hard way that it's simply easier to ask up front about preferences.
Some will come right out and tell you they don't see [fill in the blank] clients.
Others won't respond.
Others have asked me further questions and have decided to see me even though they might not usually see men like me.
I've run into this issue more with non-porn star providers than with the handful of porn stars I've seen.
I don't see the need to make race preferences part of an ad since I think that's best discussed in private along with the other details of the session or encounter.
Peace...
The risk factor to be a victim is much greater.
Groovy 2: You are not bright at all. And I am white.
Actually Groovy2, that's not true.
If it was, then White providers wouldn't see White hobbyists and Black providers wouldn't see Black hobbyists because most crime are INTRARACIAL instead of INTERACIAL. In fact, I know of one Black Provider from Eddie's PSE Yahoo Group (Devin Delray) who won't see other Black hobbyists, as messed up as that's sounds. The majority of people hurt the ones they know and love before anything else as well.
It's nice to get the feedback from everyone, though I kinda wish more providers would have chimed in.
Thanks for your input, Bridgette! Here's lookin' at ya, darlin'!
P.C.: Judging by the pic, you can tell I LOVE the booty!!
-- Modified on 12/7/2008 7:54:01 PM
-- Modified on 12/7/2008 9:41:21 PM
And the other ladies you mentioned either have a lack of education or never traveled much therefore it makes them narrow minded or they could have a pimp or a black boyfriend who does not allow them to see men of color./
By the ladies not responding (which is not good) makes it obvious..I have always said a lady should put on her website her restrictions (ie age, weight, color, etc)..
Heck I grew up in a strong catholic neighborhood that was anti-jewish and I used to believe the crap they told me until I went to college and started dating some jewish women..Of course they educated me and today a lot of friends are jewish..
J
Nice people. I dont care what your ethnic background is as long as your nice. Hell I dont even care if your a Republican as long as your nice. hahaha!!
Here is the thing. Some women just dont see men that are not caucasian. Why? Maybe they have a boyfriend or husband or family that said no ethnic men or maybe black men just dont do it for them. I really dont know why they choose only white men. But I am sure there are men on this board who only see white women, asian women, black women, women with big boobs, little boobs, skinny women, older women or young women. Is it racism, ageism, sexism or discrimination? I dont know if it is or isnt. It could be just a preference. Everyone has what they like and what they dont like including the providers. And there are plenty of providers out there that see everyone so why get upset over 3 that dont? I am sure there are guys on this board who are very happy that there are the 3 that dont. Its sad but true.
I wish everyone just saw the nice in people and not the color of their skin but that is not how it is. But maybe things will change. We do have a wonderful black President now and maybe just maybe CHANGE will happen...
Bridgette Monroe
-- Modified on 12/7/2008 10:43:38 AM
I'm Black and I have my preferences. I can't explain why some women with big boobs turn me on and some don't. But I do know this: everyone makes their own choice. Some choices are idiotic, some based on ignorance, fear, and others are just "preferences."
I agree - anyone in business should state their preferences up front. Rates, services, availability, etc. If there's a legal reason for not doing so I understand, but if they can state it up front it would save themselves, and the rest of us, alot of time.
It is good to know where people stand and it's also good to simply move on and enjoy the experience with those who will enjoy us. I don't have time to worry about 3 or 4 women out of potentially hundreds. Seriously, that's like worrying about why a lesbian isn't attracted to me.
Now... I'm going to look around for a pair of great boobs if you don't mind lol.
"We do have a wonderful black President now and maybe just maybe CHANGE will happen"...
I think the 69,058,185 people who voted for him (myself included) are hoping for that as well....
The only obligation the provider has is to state their preference on their site or during the screening process. I just don't understand the theory that preferences are bullshit. Why would you want to see and enrich someone who REALLY, REALLY didn't want to see you based simply on your race.
I have been told by non-PSE providers that they will do not see black men because of the stereotype that many of them are pimps.
Also, my best friend, who is black, and I went to a legal brothel in Nevada and they told us that several of the ladies in the lineup would not see my friend because he was black.
Maybe some people just didn't understand my earlier post. I'm not venting, I just stated my opinion. That's still legal in America, isn't it? Maybe some people didn't read the first paragraph of my post. I explicitly said that any provider has the right to choose who she sees. I also stated that many providers in NC actually let you know beforehand on who they would and wouldn't see.
There are also providers that don't see anyone until 25 and there are providers that don't see anyone under 30 (I never mentioned the "Age Issue" in my earlier post.). Like wilco69 said in his post: "Just ask." That's what I do.
To ohblah: I'm ALWAYS perfectly honest with myself. To answer your question: Yes, I would think that's messed up. If I had a hobbyist friend who was White & I recommended a provider for him who later on said that she doesn't see White guys, yeah, I would be upset by that, even though it wouldn't affect me directly.
To wilco69: I'm not venting or whining. I just stated what I thought, that's all. It seems that every time someone mentions race on this board, it becomes this big, convoluted conversation back and forth.
To kerrakles: Great question! Like I said before, just ask in advance to get that question out of the way. That's the only thing you can do before the provider gives you an answer.
To MissBridgetteM: I'm glad that you came in on this conversation. You're opinion is greatly valued on this forum and I thank you and hope to see you someday 
Also, don't be so quick to go after the people who are on the ass-end of that particular policy. If there were providers (and there are) that didn't see White hobbyists, would many here be so quick to defend that provider's choice then? I would say the same thing I'm saying now: "It's your absolute right to choose who you wanna, but I think it's bullshit."
As a matter of fact (For those of you who didn't know.), I work in the strip club industry and I've worked with Black dancers that wouldn't dance for White patrons, White dancers who wouldn't dance for Black patrons and both Black and White dancers who wouldn't dance for Mexican or Asians patrons. I've told them the same thing I just said: "It's bullshit, but it's your choice." Then I go out and find a dancer that didn't care what the patron looked like and put her on them. She winds up making a ton of money off them and the others would give me bad looks, which were promptly returned.
I know that I'm a relatively new poster in this forum, but I had some to say about it and I did. No biggie...
After I posted I realized I hadn't really replied to what you had written. Racism is a very hot button issue and unfortunately it's a fact of life. For what it's worth, all providers should declare their preferences up front and save everyone any embarassment.
If I try to pick up a chick at a bar and she doesn't respond well, am i to call her a racist? Even if she doesn't respond because of race, is she a racist? The number one right America was founded on was liberty of thought. Forcing people to think a certain way is the worst kind of tyranny in my opinion.
On that note, I HAVE been turned away from a provider, in Amsterdam, because of my ethnicity. She actually thought I was black or Middle Eastern because my tan was so fantastic (true story). It didn't bother me at all. Some women may not find most black men attractive (i personally don't find most black women attractive). Does that make me a racist? I treat them as equal, I just don't tend to find them hot. Are providers who feel the same way racist?
I think there is a difference between not finding someone hot/attractive and not providing to them. I agree with some of what you are saying, but what I mean is that I don't think a provider decides who they see based on whether they think that person is hot. I mean if that was the case then I doubt there'd be any providers who would want to meet up with my chubby ass.
I think that providers are completly within their right to choose who they do or do not want to see based on whatever criteria they choose. That being said if someone chooses race as their criteria, well, maybe they aren't racist to the point they would join the klan or turn down a minority's job application, but you have to admit that they have at least some level of prejudice in their heart.
I mean what other service based industry could someone choose their clients based on race and be defended for their decision? (yes i know that providing is a very unique type of service based industry so a comparison to another industry is probably not 100% fair)
It didn't really bother you because you know you're really NOT BLACK! If you had really been a Black dude you would have been a retard to not be offended.
Speaking as a Brownskin -- and therefore part of the global MAJORITY -- not enforcing egalitarian behavior is an even worse tyranny! Is it going to be OK for paramedics to decide they won't aid people based upon race then? How about waiters? How about taxi drivers? If you can't do the job the same way for everybody -- DON'T do that FUCKING JOB!
(That's a pun, by the way).
Would I be retarded? Or would I just respect their opinion? I'm not black, but I'm not white either. Does that mean I should be more offended for being denied a service because I'm black as opposed to because I'm some other minority? If someone is racist to a hispanic it is more acceptable than racism to a black guy? Unfortunately, that's how society treats such issues as a whole.
You are doing a worst disservice by equating this hobby to any type of service. So, you are telling me that when it comes to a women's body, they don't have a right to choose who they provide to? Equating this to any service such as being a doctor is pretty idiotic. If you can't see the fundamental difference between a provider deciding she doesn't see black clients and a doctor who won't serve a black client, then you are pretty delusional.
You are delusional if you think there is a fundamental difference. Doctors, dentists, deliverymen, plumbers, bodyguards, accountants, actors, prostitutes -- there's no difference. A professional service is a professional service.
Why should a doctor have a LESSER right of discrimination than prostitute? He should have greater, based upon his higher level of education, training, and liability.
If you excuse sexworkers for this, then you have to excuse ALL workers for expressing their indivual judgment in similar fashion.
And I hope I get to meet you one day too Zartan. And that picture of me... Ohhhh Lordy look at my roots. That is a bad hair day! haha! But it was a fun day shooting... hehee..
-- Modified on 12/7/2008 4:50:23 PM
a woman will make than who she will become intimate with and let enter her body. Given that she should be able to employ any criteria she wants and it need not make sense to anyone but her. Just as I 100% reserve the right to see only those "types" of providers I want to see, so should providers be able to. To help myself keep this in perspective I remind myself that this is not about getting a job, buying insurance or obtaining health care. It's about hobbying. Can we be done now?
Too not see someone based on the color of their skin or their nationality is very sad to me. And what is even sadder are all the nice guys these girls are passing up on meeting.
And yes these girls need to put it on their sites who they will see and wont see. Because it sucks when there is a hot porn star that is going to be in your town and you email her and your all set for the date and then when she finds out your black she cancels the appointment. I am sorry to anyone this has happened to.
Bridgette Monroe
Well, Merry KKKhristmas!
Making excuses for racism like you just have only perpetuates further racism.
Think about what you're saying here.
This "type" provider will take an appointment from a dude who looks like Charles Manson but not from a dude who looks like Wesley Snipes. She'll take a an appointment from Seth Green but not Kevin Hart (Soul Plane). She'll take an appointment from Danny DeVito but not Gary Coleman. She'll take an appointment from Evan Seinfeld, but not Lenny Kravitz.
You can't justify that as a rational "typing" preference.
I wouldnt go so far to say its racism. Everybody has things they prefer, I prefer dark skinned females, but thats just me and Im white. All people have their druthers whether it be white,black,fat,skinny,tall,short. People are so quick to call stuff racist its sad.
A dancer I dated a couple of times said she didnt like giving dances to Latino men because she has had bad experiences, some providers I have been with who are black said they dont like black men because of various reasons. I dont fully agree with that because everybody is different.
I do agree they should list it on their website, but off course the negative backlash because they are called Racist could be detrimental to their jobs. Who gives a crap. Move on.
OK, have you had dinner in an "ethnic' restaurant and had people of a different race ask you to clear their their table or get their drinks while you were walking by even though you aren't dressed like the wait staff and look nothing like them other than dusky skin?
That's happened to me three times: once in a Mexican restaurant in Texas; once at a luau in Hawaii; and once in a French restaurant -- in the Philippines where the waiters were naturally Filipino. None of these White folk meant anything hostile -- but they were all still RACIST! They live with the assumption that Dark = servile! That is the essence of racial bigotry.
The argument that the refusal of a provider or porn star to do Black guys is just a personal preference is rediculous.
Point, I prefer Black women. Hands down. Be they African-American, Afro-Dominican, Afro-Brazilian, or just African. I prefer Black women.
That does not men I can't recognize and won't screw the hell out of a woman of any other ethnic/racial group. Its just if I had to spend my life on a desert island with one other person, that one person would be an African descended woman.
But those folks who just under no circumstance will see a person of African-descent that's just plain racist. No if's, ands, or butts!
What's really funny these days is how so few racist are willing to acknoweldge themselves as being just that. Backward, uncivilized, inbred racist. Be they Ashlynn Brooke, Amy Reid or any other.
The effect of it is such that every brown and light skinned Black woman in porn who can pass will call herself Latina or anything other than Black just so she can cross over and earn a few extra dollars. Ruby Knox comes to mind. Most Black women in porn just don't even have the option that the white porn women do to not fuck whole ethnic groups.
So I salute the Bree Olsens, Rebecca Linares', Nyomi Marcelas and others of the industry who are free to be themselves and fuck the shyt out of all humans,judging them not by the color of the skin but the size and motion of their cock!
Well said, creolepeppa. I couldn't have put it better myself...
Zartan
P.S.: Another pic of a provider that doesn't care what you look like...
-- Modified on 12/8/2008 11:28:20 AM
Why again is the argument rediculous[sic]?
Best I could gather is that since you are racist towards black women, but will condescend to screw other women, that everybody else must feel the same way you do or else they are ridiculous, backward, uncivilized, inbred racists.
Oh yeah, and that women who will sleep with black men should feel free to be themselves, but women who don't feel like it should not be free to be themselves.
Well, you've certainly changed my mind.
I will not put up with racism in any of my companies, nor will I put up with it in my hobby life. I don't dispute a provider's right to choose her customers. I also have a right to choose not to patronize certain providers. If a girl makes that choice based solely on the race of the customer, I won't patronize her.
Rob
You go, Rob!! This pic of Stevie is for you!!
Rob!!
Veronica Rayne is currently in London.
I saw her.
I am black.
Maybe she has relaxed her "preferences" because the agencies over here would be less tolerant of them.
(chiming in late)
It frankly confuses me that people don't seem to think the fact that money is changing hands makes a difference. Now, I know I'm probably going to get slammed for 'objectifying' here, but if a lady chooses to provide, she is choosing to charge money for a service. She is not choosing who to take home in a bar because she likes their looks. While the hobby is all kinds of gray area (or outright black area haha) in terms of service and discrimination, I agree with the original poster and believe that ladies should indeed post their 'criteria' up front on their ads for their time. Why? Because if they don't, then they are essentially hiding their discriminatory nature from their 'shopping' public - just as if a restaurant had an 'understood but not written' discrimination policy. Or, let's say, a masseur/masseuse.
While I don't think, given the situation, we can say that she shouldn't be allowed to make that choice for herself, I do think we shouldn't be denied the information up front when we evaluate her.
Yes, this has happened to me. To make matters worse, there is usually some awful story told to get me out of the room and away, because the provider doesn't want to tell me to my face that she doesn't see men of my racial background. This is an unbelievably demeaning process - not only am I being rejected based on my skin, but I am being transparently lied to and hustled out because the person in question is apparently afraid of my reaction to that - despite the fact that I passed their screening, and (in several of these cases) have seen other ladies from the agency with nothing but fun had by all and no complaints ever (that I'm aware of).
To those who think that this is 'just one of those things,' I ask you to think about this part. It's not just that we're being denied a service we're prepared to pay for. It's that (in many cases) we're being led to a door and then looked up and down and flatly told because of our skin color that our money is no good here. Top that with the ludicrous sorts of 'escape stories' that get told because these ladies don't even want to tell me this face to face, and my already fairly poor self-image takes a fairly enormous beating.
All of which could be avoided if a little forethought was taken.
And before it's repeated, yes, I've learned to ask. But that, too, is demeaning. And if you think it's not, I would submit you've never had to do it.
Unless I look like a complete psychopath my money is as green as anyone's. Perhaps TER should add a line item with regard to provider's preferences or exclusionary practices. I'll mention that in a post 
White folk!
Can't do nothin' with 'em.
Can't do nothin' about 'em.
WHOA!
I didn't think this topic would get the response that it did! I also didn't think we had so many "Hobbyists of Color" that posted on this forum, but then again I'm still kinda new to TER.
I think the bottom line(s) is this:
1) Since this is a "business," then providers should note on their ad/website who they're willing to see as far as age, race, couples, etc... so hobbyists know IN ADVANCE and won't feel embarrassed when they don't get an answer back.
2) While providers have the absolute right to choose who they will see, it still won't stop a segment of hobbyists from feeling dissed, for whatever the reason, and that ain't right, IMHO.
3) Hobbyists have the right to post about their likes and/or dislikes on a provider whether that view may be disagreed with on this forum, as long as they're not disrespectful. That's what this place is for.
Once again on a lighter note, here's a pic of a (former?) provider that didn't care what you looked like, the forever sexy Venus...
Zartan
-- Modified on 12/8/2008 6:03:10 PM
