It seems that Air America is on the outs.

Here is my theory.

It can't compete because all they have is leftist talk with very few opposing view points. That makes for boring radio.

Many (I DIDN'T SAY ALL OR MOST) right wing talk shows regularly have guests from the left. Christopher Hitchens is a frequent guest on several shows. Irwin Chimerinsky used to be a weekly regular or Hugh Hewitt, until he moved out of state. Dawkins and Prof Zim have been on the Dennis Prager show.  I have heard Mike Ferrell, the most famous anti-death penalty voice, on "right wing" radio.

Dennis Praeger frequently has liberal university professors. Mike Gallegar has several liberals who are regular guests.

Michael Medved had at least an hour each week where he only takes callers that disagree with him.

The list goes on and on. All of these are often full hour debates, where the liberal guest gets to talk all he wants.

I have never heard Air Amercia have an hour debate with the opposing side.  

The monotone leads to boring.

AGAIN, since I know you will get it wrong: Not every host has the opposition equally. But the list is so long of liberals and leftists who are regulars on right wing radio, that the show is interesting.

dncphil...Medved designates Thursday's as "Disagreement Day".  His callers may call in and disagree with anything he has said or views he has expressed.  It's been a while since I listened, so maybe it has changed to just a one hour slot, but he used to devote the whole show that day to anyone who wanted to call in and "call him out".

I can't remember the last time I saw a conservative on Olberman's or Maddow's shows.

Sean Hannity has them on his show all the time.

Kind of lets you know who feels like their beliefs are strong enough to stand up to debate.

BTW, thought I would share these latest numbers



-- Modified on 1/21/2010 7:43:16 PM

It's 10 months old, and Glen Beck?  Really?  If he gets 3 million viewers, what are Springer's numbers?  Lastly, almost a million people watched Maddow.  Does that include people that nodded off during Olbermann and never woke up to change the station?

...quite a lot about Air America. I won't say why I know this, I'll leave that to us guys to figure it out.

When Air America started, it was put together by a very sweet and dedicated guy, Shelly Drobny. He had a vision of starting a fully liberal talk radio show.

The first person Drobny dropped the idea to was Mike Malloy over a dinner. Both of them came up with idea of naming the company Air America, a satirical rip off of the US propaganda radio pumped overseas.  

So he got together a few people, Malloy, Randi Rhodes, some staff, and went shopping for start up revenue. This took over a year. Rich democrat after rich democrat refused to put any money down to start the company up. And I can say that I know perfectly well that John Kerry, Al Gore, and Ted Turner was among that group.

Evenually, some money was put together. But the investors who wanted to lay their money down wanted to run the company. It was the investors who wanted to hire famous comedians for Air America, despite that they didn't have any radio experience.

Eventually, a full line up was established. A good one too. However, as investors got more say, eventually new management came in, and Drobny left in disgust. The reality is that Air America was being run by Republicans, and yes they had agendas. No, I'm not making this up. I know this to be a fact.

One of the many management teams got the brilliant idea to put the company heavily in debt in order to expand to as many radio stations as possible. The result was that the company filed bankrupcy in order to avoid paying back wages on many of the station's strongest talkers.  

And then out of the blue they fired Malloy. Then Janeane Garofalo left for unpaid wages. She wasn't getting along entirely with Sam Seder anyway. Franken's co host, which made his show listenable left and Franken's show went to shit. He thankfully ended it to seek the Senate. His show was replaced by the far better Thom Hartmann program.

Drobny ended up starting another competing company, Nova M Radio. They put on Malloy and Randi Rhodes. But the great recession knocked that company out of business.

Eventually, most of the Air America originals quit or went elsewhere. Rachel Maddow was the only original they still had.

Despite all this, liberal talk radio is still doing fairly well. Malloy is still on the air. Hartmann is still on the air. Randi is still on the air. Stephanie Miller still has a great program. Ed Shultz still has a great program.

The thing is, at the time nobody in radio would take left talk seriously. Radio programmers are always cautious no-risk type guys. Air America actually accomplished what it set out to do. It seriously affected election cycles, and it put left wing talk on the air.

The company that puts Miller and Shultz on the air, also puts right talkers on as well. And there's other distributors out there who have been in the business for decades have begun picking up some left talkers.

Really, the story of Air America was really all about was that Republicans aren't just good at destroying government, but they're good at destroying companies too.

Phil's assertion that Air America didn't have anyone on to debate is pretty absurd. It was actually Air America's policy that any conservative callers were to be automatically put on the air first. And this certain did make for entertaining radio, especially on the Malloy program.

Looks like the situation is even worse than I thought for MSNBC and CNN. Not only is Fox News kicking their ass, but they are still continuing to pull further ahead!!

I wonder how long it will be before CNN and MSNBC join the Ranks of Air America

In regards to your Springer comment, well, that's just the elitist liberal in you coming out I suppose.



-- Modified on 1/22/2010 4:23:52 AM

-- Modified on 1/22/2010 4:24:27 AM

First, it is so silly to say Republicans destroy companies in this case. What did they do? Steal listeners?  

With all the entertainment talent on the left, they couldn't make it.

Now let's not distrot too much. I didn't say they don't let anyone debate.  I said I hear much less of the other side.  How often did the people you mention have hours with the other side?  It may have happened. It is just that it was not common enough for me to ever hear it.

The left witn guests on right wing radio are regulars and some were top of the left wing intelectuals, like Hitchens and Zim.  How many of Air America's hosts had regular guests like that?

As to disagreeing callers put on first, I just do not believe it.  I listen to Bill Press every morning and rarely, rarely heard disagreeing callers, and don't think I ever heard one held on for a long time.  

I just did not see what you are saying.

While some of the events you mention such as who worked where and when they moved on might be true, ( I don't know), the conclusion you reach that "republicans financed and ran a radio show, and deliberately set about to destroy it, with premeditation", is just plain bullshit.

That's just not how business works and when it comes to money, money is far more important than political games to investors.

Sorry WW, but you paint some curious fiction in your writings, mixed with some truth, but even though you intend to build a house, you seem to always create a barn.

Unfortunately he only reads his view and he doesn't get out much in the Real world.

Remember willy is the dude who thinks a physically challenged person would not take offense calling them handicapped..

Any radio show, to be successful, must be able to sell advertising that WORKS.

That is, the show must attract an audience of people who have the means and can be inspired to buy whatever the advertisers offer. Thus, advertisers will pay a pretty penny to advertise, because it generates more revenue than it costs.

Radio talk that demonizes the successful, and blames them for the plight of the less successful, will disproportionately repel the successful and attract the less successful.

Creating an audience of those who resent those who work hard, work smart, take risks and attain success is not a recipe for being able to sell advertising at high prices.

Thus, the audience will be, overall, less well-heeled. Advertising will be worth less.

Revenues will fall.

Common sense.

Anyone who invested in that enterprise was out of his mind.

Re your comment "intend to build a house, you seem to always create a barn." is that yours or a general saying?

I like it, and never heard it before.

I just can't handle Mr Beck's "aw geez" wingnut rants.  I often flip between Keith & Bill O, just to see two completely different spins on a topic, and then lament that I still don't have the truth.

I think that there's a tendency for people to watch more of the opposing view, leading folks to jump the liberal media ship, when there's a liberal asshat in every branch of government.

But most importantly, Springer is great television.  Base entertainment at it's finest.  The difference between that show & Glen's is that it's not intended to be taken seriously (unless you're from a trailer park in the south, of course).

I don't listen to his show, and he's on the same network I believe as Stephanie Miller and Ed Shultz. I don't listen much to Shultz either, but Miller will have right wingers on. Malloy would often beg right wingers to call. Thom would regular start off his show with right wing guest and debate him for the first half hour of the show. So, yes, it does happen.

No, it's not silly to say that Republicans destroy companies in this case. I'm saying that Republicans infiltrated the company, took it over, and purposely ran it into the ground. This is a fact.

No, pwilley, I'm saying that I didn't hear this. I'm saying that I personally know this to be a fact.

Actually John, there was a very loyal group of advertisers who kept the business afloat. Other liberal media outlets like The Nation was one. Believe it or not, the Free Republic was one as well. There was also many small independent companies that market themselves to liberals. Fair trade coffee producers, organic wine producers, Apple computer retailers. It actually worked quite well because as it turned out, liberal listeners were proportionally more loyal to their advertisers than you find with conservative radio advertisers.

However, there was a group of advertisers from corporate America who would refuse to advertise with Air America, and they kept this secret. It wasn't until someone let the cat out of the bag, that this became known. It included companies like All State insurance, Proctor and Gamble, and Home Depot.

There was an organized effort from within the company and from without to see that Air America failed.

You wrote "Republicans infiltrated the company, took it over, and purposely ran it into the ground."

And we didn't land on the moon.  And the owners just sat there while the GOP infiltrated. How?  Did they buy stock and vote the good guys out?  Did they tell the program manager to hire peole who can't get a rating?  They took over?  And having taken control, they kept on lefties?  

Okay, Paranoid Boy. What decisions did the secret GOPs make that ran the company into the ground.  When they took over, what positions did they fill?

And while they were sneaking in as mail room clerks, or what ever, doing a bad job, why didn't the leftie brains say, "No. that is not how you run a business.?

I already explained what happened to Air America, how it happened, and why. You make me worry about your reading comprehension level.

This isn't paranoia. This is first hand knowledge of what happened.

Looking at your first post, all I saw was the allegation in the paragraph starting with "Eventually, a full line up was established..."  The thing you say is "The reality is that Air America was being run by Republicans, and yes they had agendas."  There was no source other than a link to a You Tube video, which must be true if it is on video.

You have an unsupported allegation with no explanation of why or how an organization set up by lefties hired a bunch of GOP to make the management decision.

If that is true that they did it, they are even dumber than I thought.

You say it is your first hand knowledge, without saying exactly what they did, who did it, how they did it, or any other verifiable detail to back it up. Just an empty conclusory statement.

Okay. I can do the same.  My first hand knowledge is that they are all child molestors from Mars who were hoping to cause the moon to crash into Venus.

Well, we both put out our first hand knowledge.

...if you don't believe me.

I could tell you names and dates of who did what. However, I will not on this forum for reasons that should be obvious to you.

I don't listen to the radio, I don't watch network or cable news, I get just about everything from print.

Okay I admit to listening to podcasts of Car Talk, Fresh Air and Wait Wait Don't Tell Me. But that's it. Oh and Charlie Rose, okay, but that's it.

Okay, so we have a story that a bunch of lefties decide to start a radio show for political purposes and are bamboozled into hiring a bunch of Republicans to make the managment decisions.

When they see the company going downhill as a result of the current group making decisions, they don't hire other people, but allow the GOP demons to keep working.

They see things going badly a year ago, and don't call in anyone to look at what might be wrong, since no one ever seemed to discover things were going badly.  (HINT, HINT, HINT. When your ratings are 1/3 of your competition, maybe you should check it out. If not you are too dumb to compete.)

The levels of silly are geometric.  WHen you hire people, it is common to ask for references and prior experience, which means that either the GOP said who they had worked for, and it didn't cause any eyebrows to raise when the were hiring the enemy, or the GOP lied on their resumes, and the lefties never checked it out.  (DOn't know which is dumber)

It also means that all the people who started seeing things to bad - LIKE YOU - just stood there and didn't say, "Hey, this might not be a good idea."

Of course, you never knew they were GOP until when????? Did you just discover this now, or did you know all along?  

I go back to my story. From my personal experience, I know they are child molestors from Mars.  I would divulge how I know it, but obviously I can', for reasons that should be obvious to you.  (Hint. I do not work at an observatory.)

And I think my story is as logical as yours.

that coincides which the GOP paying Armstrong Williams bribes to do favorable reporting.

It's a silly story that coincides with Ken Tomlinson trying to destroy PBS in the NAME OF getting rid of liberals on the network.

It's a silly story that coincides with a list of advertisers who boycott Air America for solely political purposes.

Yeh, it's just a silly story Phil. Just like it's a silly story that Air America office managers bragged about voting for Bush.

Just like it's a silly story that Air America fired they best liberal talkers to replace them with moderate conservative talkers with no experience or audience.

Just like it's a silly story that Air America fired their biggest star Randi Rhodes "for calling Hillary Clinton names" when in reality they were trying to railroad her into a long term contract with little pay. A firing that was in breach of her contract.

Just like it's a silly story that Air America asked their employees to not complain about unpaid wages, and when the employees had enough, they filed for bankrupcy just to screw people out of money.

Just like it's a silly story that Air America took Malloy off the air on every single station except one to punish him for not supporting Israel's attack on Lebanon, and eventually firing him.

Yeh, it's all just a silly story Phil.

You list a slew of things with nothing to show they are related to the GOP undermining Air America.

So how did the GOP fire Randi Rhodes? She made comments that offended people so she was fired.  Why is that the GOP fault?

People don't like something at PBS, which proves that the GOP destroyed Air America.  WOW. Is that a jump?

Who is a "moderate conservative" that they hired to replace popular hosts?  And why did they fire the "popular" hosts?

So, they weren't paying their employees and the employees complained. And it was the fault of the GOP that they didn't pay people? Or was it the fault of the GOP that when workers were not paid, they complained?  Those rotten GOP, demanding workers be paid. WOW. EVIL INCARNATE.

AND WHAT DOES TALKING MALOY OFF THE AIR HAVE TO DO WITH THE GOP????? Since when did the GOP hire and fire Air America people.

Of course, if Obama can blame Bush for Brown winning (saying it is people mad over the last 8 years that caused MA to vote GOP), then you can blame the GOP for the fact that Air America was a flop.


FLOP, FLOP, FLOP. And how leftie. Blame someone else for your failure.

-- Modified on 1/22/2010 8:30:41 PM

If I told you that gravity makes us stick to the earth you would say it's really because of a liberal failure of not flapping your arms fast enough.

You don't discuss or debate anything here. You just offer a contrary position for no reason at all. You don't even bother to approach a single thing objectively.

I had a friend once who did the exact same thing. He had narcissistic personality disorder. I don't know for sure if he said I was wrong about everything because of his own feelings of inadequacy and inner self loathing, but I do know that his endless insults were very much a part of his own diseased mind.

It is for that reason why when I told him that I was only friends with him because I felt sorry for him, that he went quite bonkers. To make a long story less long, I took his girl and he moved back in with his parents, and he's been there ever since.

I dunno what reminded me of that.

No. I am not being contrary. I am addressing your points exactly.

I will use one as an illustration, although I could do the same for each.

Originally you said that the GOP ruined Air American (AA).  I asked how, and you gave several examples. One was the fact that AA was not paying its workers and the workers sued for wages, causing problems for AA.  Presumably, the GOP was behind this, or it would not be an example of what you were talking about.

I then asked why that was the GOP's fault.  I think that is a reasonable question, since it would seem is an employer is not paying his staff and the staff sues, the employer has no one to blame but himself.  

This was a debate. You said something, and I pointed out the flaw.  

In response, you didn't address my issue. You did a little insult disquised as pop psychology.

If you can explain why the GOP is to blame for AA getting into the dispute with its workers, I will say I am sorry. But there is no explanation, so you will either ignore this or not address that directly.

"You dunno."

How very very true.

So, let's see you name the things that I said that were not addressed to your points.  I would bet that anything I said in this post was directed at the logical flaw in your posts.

Again, you just avoid it.

If anything, you never addressed my points.  The Monty Python clip is more in line with your style of not addressing the question.

One last chance, if you can:  Why is the GOP to blame for Air America not paying its staff?

Oooops. Let's see how we avoid it this time.

...so long as you post on this board what your legal name is, your home address, the names of your immediate family, and how to get in contact with them.

I posted earlier that I can't get into precise details for reasons that should be obvious. Apparently, it wasn't obvious to you.

I have to confess, I haven't watched enough of Mr Beck to actually have an opinion about him, Jerry Springer OTOH is hilarious at times, taken in small doses at least. Very small doses I might add.

Without revealing your identity, you could explain my last question, which was why the GOP should be blamed when Air America did not pay its staff.  

So that you don't put your identity at risk, I will even assume that the GOP caused the staff to rebel. Assuming that is true, does that make it the GOP fault that Air America was stiffing its employees?

You already revealed they had problems paying their staff, which was not a secret, so that doesn't compromise your identity.  Why is that the GOP's fault?  

Phil: What's the capitol of Iowa?
Willy: Des Moines.
Phil: Why won't you answer my question? What's the capitol of Iowa?
Willy: I told you. Des Moines.
Phil: You must not know, since you're avoiding my question.
Willy: I've told you twice already. It's Des Moines.
Phil: Stupid liberals are always making excuses for their stupidity. Can't answer a simple question.
Willy: Jumping jesus on a pogo stick, shut up already.
Phil: So now you're throwing insults instead of answering the question. Typical liberal.

And thus this continues ad naseum.

Actually, that is the opposite of what happened. You never answered the question initially.  Ever time I repeated the question it was because you had not answered it in the prior post.  Find one post where I asked a question you had answered. Come on.  It was more like:

Phil: What is the capital of Iowa?
Willy: I won't say.
Phil: Well, if you won't say, will you admit it is not Sacramento.
Willy: I can't say.
Phil: But you implied that you had been in Iowa when you went to Sacrmento.
Willy: I have secret information.

No, Willy.  I addressed everything you said.  I didn't add things that were off the subject, and you never answered one question.

Okay. Here is your chance.

Phil: Willy, why is the GOP responsible when Air America does not pay it staff?

Willy:  _____ FILL IN THE BLANK (and the answer is not "Des Moines" or "I can't say."

The people in the northern trailer parks watch Olbermann.

MIchigan with their "militias" are further right than even GOP Geezer, and make the KKK of southern fame look like pansy little liberals in comparison.