To me in two years? Who do you expect to believe that when a simple search shows you're lying your ass off . . . . as usual?
Its okay, short-bus kids sometimes have bad memories, because their brain gets pre-occupied with concentrating on not drooling in public. How much longer are you going to lurk here pretending you're a hobbyist?I think most of us have no problem discussing the existence of BBFS among Kgirl providers. In fact, there have been many insightful and informative discussions here about this subject in the ABSTRACT, without need to identify any particular girls that may or may not offer such services to some of their customers.
The fact is, I have NEVER met a Kgirl that offers BBFS to EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER who walks through the door. It is always YMMV at the sole discretion of the girl. Granted, some girls will offer it to 80% of their customers, while others may only offer it to 10%. The problem is that, even with the girl who is more generous with her favors at the 80%, if you publish her name in a review or on a board, you are going to cause problems for her with 20% of her customers that are going to EXPECT BBFS because it was published that its on her menu. When the girl gets tired of all the guys showing up expecting they are ENTITLED to BBFS because some dick-wad published it in a review or on the board, they simply pack up and move to a city where no one ever heard of getting BBFS.
I think recent developments in this area, from what I hear from Kgirls and bookers, are going to result in many more girls starting to BL guys, and some bookers are getting on board with BL'ing the guy not just from seeing a particular girl, but from seeing every girl in the org, because they recognize that guys with big mouths are making their girls unsafe. A hobbyist that gets on THAT shit-list is never going to get off, and runs the risk of having a booker tell other bookers that he is BL'd.
So guys, lets all be gentlemen. BBFS exists, and we should be free to discuss it in the ABSTRACT, but when you start calling out girls by name, YOU ARE HURTING THEIR BUSINESS, whether that was your intention or not. I have it on good authority that Queen originally planned to be here a few more weeks, but decided to leave when she did because of guys suggesting every customer gets BBFS from her and posting it on various discussion boards. She got tired of being challenged in her right to choose, and dealing with guys pushing her for it.
If your ego is so fragile or your insecurities about your manhood are so great that you feel a need to brag about receiving a special service from a Kgirl, put a sock in it. If she leaves because of YOUR big mouth, you lose, too.
-- Modified on 3/16/2017 1:00:35 PM
You guys in So Cal need to stop calling BBFS by the term PSE, To every one else in the country PSE does NOT mean BBFS, and it's causing a LOT of confusion and misunderstandings here.
Aside from that, I completely agree. BBFS is a fact of life in the P4P world, but while "naming names" is great when talking about NCNS, it's reckless and irresponsible to do when talking about BBFS, unless of course the woman actually advertises that service like a woman in Dallas does in EVERY TER ad she posts. UGH. She must be a walking petri dish.
a secret. By keeping it a secret only give more room to encourage and to continue the reckless behavior. IMHO
say shit like this from behind an alias. Do you see the irony? You're asking for full disclosure, yet YOU want to remain secret. If keeping a secret is okay for you, why isn't it okay for a Kgirl?
I am not doing anything that will harm myself or others. I am not doing anything reckless. I am taking extreme care to protect myself, including my usage of alias. I do not think K-girls, who provide BBFS, are doing that. However, I feel you should focus on the discussion that you brought up instead of getting distracted on me, personally. Focus on the discussion. It's more important than me.
Still don't see the irony in your double standard, then there is no hope for you to have any credibility here in the future.
I REALLY hate those mofos because I didn't have the opportunity to see her before she left. May their fuck sticks rot, whither, and fall off.
Some of these 'top tier' girls have been doing the unspoken since they first became hookers, in other cities or countries, before they came to LA. To put it harshly, they were already tainted, and they brought it upon themselves.
These girls would be naive to think that selectively giving access to special menus would go unnoticed among hobbyists who like to share intel. It should be privileged info kept to oneself, but you know people have loose lips. And even naming girls in back channels fucks them over, as some of these guys are the same bullies and assholes that girls don't want to rawdog.
Are guys really hurting their business because of the added pressure for special menus, or because half the guys don't want to eat a pussy that has just been creampied by another john 15 minutes ago?
From what I've seen, a girl with a special menu brings in as many new customers as she loses in old customers. I know of guys who have stopped seeing a girl upon discovery of the special menu. And based on how I've seen kgirls clean up post-sex, I can see why.
Speaking of terms... should we now call it "GFE++" for what used to be "PSE" ?
I know some agencies elsewhere are fucking up the meaning of PSE by using it to promote bbfs.
They may not be hurting business in the very short term, but from what I see the MMS in NYC do not like the added attention. There is a local board in the Northeast, and every time a special is offered to one guy, he brags about it, and that girl's business spikes. You all know what happens next - she leaves or is forced to. And no the business does not shift to a new girl, so all that 'publicity' is wasted.
GaGambler is correct that in the Northeast PSE is not BBFS. At least not yet.
is already being used in advertising, especially on the CV SF board, to denote a girl offers BBFS.
West Coast lead the East Coast in these areas. Local board exploded with a post from a provider about what PSE means. I would say 75% assumed the traditional definition. Safe for now but not for long.
So do you guys in California plan on forcing the rest of us to use your terminology? Or are we going to figure out a way to avoid this confusion?
As I said earlier, it's tough to put the toothpaste back into the tube.
+2. The great majority of us understand the difference between the 2 terms. Why do we let a small minority dictate language confusion? Just ignore them.
Offer BBFS by putting PSE after their names (check the SF CV board), so how can you say everyone knows the difference? You're making yourself look clueless again.
But that's where one of the problems is. PSE typically doesn't mean BBFS and I don't think it did before in the areas now using that term. I get that some want to advertise BBFS and putting that in an ad will undoubtedly attract the wrong attention but the reality is that if the local market changes the meaning of PSE that's going to attract the same type of unwanted attention. I'm talking about LE and other public agencies due to risks of spreading disease.
What they should be doing is making up some new term rather than an existing one and creating confusion. The new term will propagate throughout the local market and mongers -- just as they isolated usage of PSE has.
I wouldn't suggest, too similar to existing but they could do something like TNG - totally natural girl. Some might think that's about no cosmetic surgery or full bush or something like that (hope they are not from Europe/France as then it's arm pit hair!) but that could be the euphemism for BBFS. Not no confusion within or across markets.
An ad says, "All natural," and I think it means no implants, but when the girl show up it means she is sporting a bush that starts at her navel and goes half way down her thighs. You can either pass on DATY, or end up coughing up hairs for the rest of the day.
They HAVE sort of brought it upon themselves by trusting guys that shouldn't be trusted. This is the problem because of the point I made in my OP. Even girls that are liberal with BBFS still should have the right to choose without being hassled by guys that they don't want to offer it to. By publishing it when the girl is not publishing herself it is going to hurt her business. Contrast this with the BA where multiple girls in CV ads now have PSE after their names. If the girl advertises it, then its okay to assume it's on the menu for everyone, but if she's not, it causes problems for her when she meets a customer that, for whatever reason, she wants to pass on. Maybe a guy doesn't seem clean, has visible sores or bumps on his dick, or whatever, but the vast majority of girls want to be able to make the call on their own and not have guys posting on boards or in reviews that so-and-so is a sure thing for BBFS, which is what these assholes do.
Most girls know the penalty for being outed for BBFS: Their business will spike temporarily as low-volume and younger hobbyists, who often pose more STD risk for the community, get in line to try to get BBFS. As you pointed out, many veterans, older guys with deeper pockets who can repeat more often, tip more, and book multiple-hour sessions may gravitate away because they consider the BBFS information that has now been published to be a risk level that they're not prepared to embrace. So in the long run, which sometimes is as short as several weeks or a few months, it definately hurts a girl's business, and this is often why they must move on to another town.
So I think unless a girl specifically says its okay to publish BBFS (which I have only had happen to me once out of 400+ girls), there is an implied trust that is being breached by hobbyists that publish special services without the express permission of the girl. It seems ungentlemanly and unchivalrous to me.
Guys will be guys, but gentlemen mature like a fine Scotch. You can always pick out the younger crowd by their posts.
That's not the fucking point Bendadick! What a stupid alias! It does't fucking matter if they fucked the rest of the world BBFS. Just who the FUCK are you to label these women "tainted" and degrade them as such individuals. It's quite clear that you have the brain of fucking fruit fly! Go fuck your left ear, before passing such degrading judgement on these women.
What are you...... fucking 5 yrs old? These women aren't stupid or naive! They know very well the risks they take when engaging BBFS. Just as the fucknut who partakes in BBFS understands the physical risks and harm that may ensue. And stop with the "Secret menu" Bulshit! What are you fucking talking about? The girls don't have a "Burger King" menu above the head board saying $100 for BBFS, $200 Greek, $50 COF....etc. The engagement of BBFS happens in 2 ways....the provider either "allows" the "privilege" or you the fuck head "Coerces" it!
The real issue is the unspoken "TRUST". It's the "TRUST" that she hoped you would keep when you walked out that fucking door. It's the TRUST that she hoped you would NOT break by "BLASTING" on the Cocky Cock High News Letter or TER reviews! If she really didn't care....she would advertise the shit publicly! You're a true moron!
Yes, no matter how you look at it bitch!......It's does affect them negatively....otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it....right?
Another fucking Roach!
I recommend reevaluating the idea that they brought it upon themselves. Similar to what Coeur-de-lion said, I don't think the women are advertising or giving the green light for open forum discussion about it, but if they are it changes the situation.
If you still believe that they brought it upon themselves, then I have a different recommendation that I'd ask GaGambler to give a seal of approval.
I'm looking at the problem objectively. Don't interpret my words maliciously.
Human nature- people have big mouths.
bbfs intel is traded rampantly in the back channels.
So, NO ONE can be trusted. Expecting doctor-patient confidentiality is silly.
These girls randomly give bbfs or creampie on THE FIRST VISIT and expect to TRUST a stranger not to blabber about it??
What kind of image is she projecting when she fucks handsful of guys raw after knowing them for 15 minutes?
It's disingenuous to call this "trust".
I acknowledge that posting publicly compounds the problem that already existed when intel was traded in private.
But what's easier to fix?... Having the girl completely stop bbfs, or having guys stop posting about it in public/private?
The first one, right?
She can (and does) say No, and most rawdoggers are respectful of her choice, or fearful of being blacklisted.
Since high scoring girls who don't offer bbfs don't have this problem, I have to say, again...
girls who carelessly (or even selectively) offer bbfs on the first visit, brought it upon themselves.
This issue will never be solved.
Well I suspect you're correct that lowlifes will be lowlifes but there is a concept called honor among thieves and that's the standard that should apply here. It goes along with the STFU principle.
No, if the girl is advertising the BBFS then there's really no point it telling anyone about. If they are not then clearly one should STFU on that topic.
Given that we don't seem to be able to behave well collectively and police that behavior ourselves, nor can we properly mentor newbies (or they are just too stupid to learn) that leaves the supply side to address the situation. I'm not too worried about it either way as BL the stupid, thoughtless loud mouths only makes it a safer environment for me.
It hurts their business if they get so pissed off about it that they decide to quit early. We all lose when this happens.
I feel the way it's been offered is extremely reckless. They do not require their clients to have proof that they are STD free and they offered none. I do not feel BBFS providers should expect hobbyists to keep it a secret if she's going to offer it, whether it's only for a few or many or all. Why blame the messengers (reviewers)? Anyway, you can't keep it a secret even if nobody writes about it in TER review. It's already out there on the internet and they have no problem naming names. I also think it's a good thing if agencies start to BL those hobbyist who ask for BBFS, but I don't think it will be enough to stop the practice. Personally, I would like to see it stopped, but I respect those who decide to continue. It's their choice, but I would like to know which provider is engaging in such activities so I can avoid her. If her business suffer then other providers might decide not to engage in offering BBFS. If it's good for her business then at least I can avoid them when it's in the open.
that your concern is only for yourself and you could care less about the impact on the girl or her business. Are you a millennial?
If you want to avoid ANY Kgirl who might be doing BBFS with SOMEONE, then you should get out of the hobby. Whether you know or don't know doesn't change the risk level. How would you go about avoiding the ones you don't know about, other than to stop seeing Kgirls altogether? Whenever this topic comes up, there's always someone who says this, but no one has ever been able to say for certain that they haven't already seen a Kgirl that is offering BBFS, but that you don't know about it. If you don't know, then you don't know.
Again, I feel we should focus on the issue/discussion instead of insulting each others.
I am not trying to avoid any/all K-girls or other providers who offer BBFS. As you said, it would be impossible to avoid it 100% if I continue to be in this hobby. I am just saying that if it's more in the open than it would be easier to avoid them. It may also discourage anyone to offer BBFS, which I think it will be a good thing for K-girls also. This practice is not safe for their health. It's not just their business that you should be concerned about. Isn't their health just as important? I can see you are much more invested in K-girls, that you have seen lots of them; therefore, I agree I probably do not care about them as much as you do. If you truly feel it's better to not name names or put it in review then I will trust your judgement, but I am afraid what you are trying to do is already been done before and 5-10 years from now it will still be the same.
Providers (not just Kgirls) that have offered BBFS to their regulars. Granted, not in the wholesale, indiscriminate basis of the past few years. I think you still have to leave it up the each individual girl to make a choice of staying UTR in going public. You have to respect the recent developments in SF where the girls that offer BBFS are being up front about it. If they do that here, it will make it a lot easier for someone like you to decide who you want to see without violating anyone's trust.
I SO Agree!
I feel the way it's been offered is extremely reckless. They do not require their clients to have proof that they are STD free and they offered none. I do not feel BBFS providers should expect hobbyists to keep it a secret if she's going to offer it, whether it's only for a few or many or all. Why blame the messengers (reviewers)? Anyway, you can't keep it a secret even if nobody writes about it in TER review. It's already out there on the internet and they have no problem naming names. I also think it's a good thing if agencies start to BL those hobbyist who ask for BBFS, but I don't think it will be enough to stop the practice. Personally, I would like to see it stopped, but I respect those who decide to continue. It's their choice, but I would like to know which provider is engaging in such activities so I can avoid her. If her business suffer then other providers might decide not to engage in offering BBFS. If it's good for her business then at least I can avoid them when it's in the open.
I like checks that take huge facials and offer Greek.
Condom is fine.
So what the fuck should I now call these proclivities I've been bestowed?
I too thought pse meant attitude + possibly greek until recently but now that I know how it is used in Bay area ads, I say something like "naughty gfe" for the attitude part only. If I am looking for or referring to greek than I'm going to continue to specifically say greek to avoid confusion.
Don't let a small minority manipulate us. It's not equivalent to BBFS. Let's call a spade a spade. If some people are confused, we can't help them.
-- Modified on 3/17/2017 1:35:32 PM
Advertising PSE in SF on the CV site, because EVERY SF Kgirl hobbyist understands the PSE designation MEANS BBFS. Since you say it's only a few guys, why don't you straighten them out since you're "in the know."
This is a national board. Only about a dozen Kgirls advertised such in SF. Why do we let them dictate our use of the English language. You say EVERY SF K hobbyist knows. When did you take such poll? Get help from Gallop before you make wild broad brush claim.
Kgirls are confused on many parts of the English language. If some scumbags in search of BBFS find their girls, let them do it at their peril. I for one will not sink to that level.
Good for you brother.
For PSE in the Bay, the women will have it in their ad, and those women are known for protection as optional.
I am not going to be bullied by them into changing the English language to suit them and likewise I am not going to let a handful of K girls a couple of thousand miles away from me change the meaning of PSE either.
I for one plan on calling BBFS by that term and I plan on using the term PSE the same way I always have I have three words for anyone who tries to tell me otherwise.
and does anyone REALLY need a hint as to what those three words are? Ok, the first word is "GO" and the last word is "YOURSELF" If you need a hint any bigger than that you are truly TSTTT. lol
Previously you mentioned the confused use only in CA. Actually, more limited, to the dozen or so Kgirls in SF. We don't have such confusion in LA. I'm willing to post a poll on the LA board to see what percentage is so confused.
I for one plan on calling BBFS by that term and I plan on using the term PSE the same way I always have I have three words for anyone who tries to tell me otherwise.
and does anyone REALLY need a hint as to what those three words are? Ok, the first word is "GO" and the last word is "YOURSELF" If you need a hint any bigger than that you are truly TSTTT. lol
-- Modified on 3/20/2017 9:57:24 PM
He's a lurker that is so far out of the loop on the LA Kgirl scene he has been designated the VILLAGE IDIOT by my PM network. None of his ramblings are ever supported by the local respected veterans, even though he brown-noses several here.
He's pushing his agenda about confusion over PSE to cover his tracks on the thread below where he named two girls that are PSE, knowing the OP was asking for BBFS girls. He's even taken it to other boards to try damage control. But a cockroach is a cockroach. You can dress it up anyway you wan to try to fool others. Don't be taken into his game.
is hellbent on brown nosing K bookers at the expense of our English.
If that cockroach is a lurker, then this narcissistic cockroach is a stalker, who takes advantage of someone who would not respond.
the un-confused majority know what we want and get. No problem for us. If a Kgirl offers BBFS, no one need to accept it.
-- Modified on 3/18/2017 12:42:28 PM
gentleman hobbyists. You're no gentleman. On the thread below, when someone asked for names of PSE girls, you couldn't wait to be a scumbag and give up Pepsi and Yoona. AND you KNEW you were responding to a request for PSE names meaning BBFS. You're right that you're not confused. You knew exactly what you were doing. No one ever seems to agree with you, so don't know how that makes you part of any "majority." Its laughable.
Other than a couple of millennial morons here, name one veteran hobbyist in LA that is like-minded to you that thinks it was okay for you to name Pepsi and Yoona as PSE/BBFS girls?
with an NPD who'll do anything to get attention. He accused you of naming Pepsi & Yoona for PSE. Sure, we the un-confused majority know PSE is no synonym for BBFS. If that Forrest Dumb continues to promote confusion, he just mainly satisfies his craving for attention.
Well, we'll let him have the last word because (a) he has too much time on his hand; and (b) another chance for attention.
LMAO on obvious snake oil pitch.
To take over the title of village idiot from L-K. You can call me whatever names you want, although something new and origiinal would be nice, but the fact remains that you're both clueless about the LA Kgirl scene. Do you have one single Kgirl veteran that will vouch that you know what you're talking about? Neither does L-K. At least in your case, you recently put up a few generic reviews. Not any unique details, so maybe they're real and maybe they're fake. If they're real, it's a step in the right direction. If you drop the same old tired worn-out shit bashing me, you might get a modicum of credibility some day.
Avoid the temptation. You're exactly playing into his thirst for attention. As Shaunna said, "He can't help himself". But, let's have mercy on him. As you pointed out in that K81944 post, such behavior comes from childhood trauma. I think K8 must be a psychiatrist.
The poor sicko must have called me by all names over 2 yrs, but I never sank to that level to respond.
To me in two years? Who do you expect to believe that when a simple search shows you're lying your ass off . . . . as usual?
Its okay, short-bus kids sometimes have bad memories, because their brain gets pre-occupied with concentrating on not drooling in public.
How much longer are you going to lurk here pretending you're a hobbyist?
The gentlemen on this this thread will know this. The rest, pearls before the swine.
You are right, but lots of guys lurk here and don't post. I feel like this notice is more for their benefit.
Wow. I totally didn't know PSE meant bbfs. So now I do. These last two threads read like everyone wants to be invited to a secret Russian roulette party, woohoo. Not me. I hate condoms, but I like my life and my dick more. The idea that this is about ego or these ladies business is pretty stupid. The morons offering it or the morons rushing to demand it are simply that -- morons. Where does "gentleman" and Russian roulette party go together? Maybe in a Korean kickboxing movie?
Or a piss fetish video with a certain orange asshole..
PSE still doesn't mean bbfs.
PSE is supposed to mean the gonzo porn style.
The bay area is bending the rules, and doesn't want to outright use the BBFS acronym .
A few indies in LA also use "PSE" to hint at bbfs.
There is what it's supposed to mean, and then there is what it's being commonly USED to mean on the west coast.
has already begun on the dickwad site for the current occupant of Her Majesty's former suite.
Also a complaint or comment or two about Megan regarding her new "ridiculous" (a dickwad's word, not mine) rate. Apparently he didn't get what he was after, so in addition to the rate he trashed her looks and performance as well.
JEEBUS Fucking Christ these guys are assholes. One shit-for-brains is even asking for BBFS tips for women in TJ. I certainly hope he finds one.
"because they recognize that guys with big mouths are making their girls unsafe" I don't think that's what you meant to say. I think the girls are still safe for us -- it's just the big mouths have made the hobby unsafe for the girls 
I think you also left out the potential loss of business from those more safety conscious hobbyists-- no idea if that's more the experience here or the newbies.
Outing a girl also gets the interest of LE, because BBFS created a public health issue. There have been instances in the past where KE gives priority to shutting down providers that are not practicing safe sex. The adds additional risk for the girls if bring busted, AND an unwary customer who may be in the wrong place at the wrong time. So it's not completely still safe for us.
Although I do not think the policy of not naming names has or will protect K-girls or ourselves, I will respect the wisdom of the majority here and not name names (not that I have or was intending to). I will not be able to continue this discussion any further because I am taking my favorite on a vacation. 
Good luck to you all and please be safe.
Well, I just wanted to wish you a warm & wonderful vacation with your "favorite". I hope you find a nice palm tree under the sun to spend with your favorite girl "Rosie"...."Rosie Palm" that is...
-- Modified on 3/17/2017 8:05:15 PM
If he gets BBFS, which is often the case when you go on vacation with your "favorite", was he going to come back and name her so we will all feel safer by knowing.
Unwanted pregnancies and unwanted attention bookers/owners will threaten to kick the girl out if she does it.
A girl that offers it when shes just on a 3 month visa is a retard as that means thats her regular menu when she was hooking in korea before coming to US.
I say good riddance to a stupid girl like that whos that reckless with lives.
Surprised no one responded to this. I agree with you. But I think the OP point is more about "you're lame if you brag about it, and it hurts everyone." I also agree with that, paraphrased as it is...
A girl that offers it when shes just on a 3 month visa is a retard as that means thats her regular menu when she was hooking in korea before coming to US.
I say good riddance to a stupid girl like that whos that reckless with lives.
Kind of agree with dancebbq09 only if that is her regular menu somewhere else because she should advertise it to attract her target customers and leave the unwitting customers out of it.
But if she does not advertise it, she may just really like that hot guy, and they both lose their head for all I know. If the guy brags about it in review, I blame only him.
I refrain from responding because I fully agree with CDL and most everyone here, even agree somewhat with some posters. Only As.Good.as.It.Gets troubled me with his line of thinking in this thread and another thread. As long as I am not aware he is naming girls for BBFS, I can keep my trap shut.
Seriously, I am fully aware and accept the risks of seeing Kgirls. I don't need that BBFS crap thrown in my face and make me lose interest in seeing a Kgirl just because I start to imagine a line of guys BBFS her.
I am all for a girl to be empowered to BL guys for forcing or demanding BBFS. If a booker/owner really kicks a girl out for doing BBFS, then that is just too good to be true. Who tell the booker? If the guy tells the booker, then wouldn't the girl just claims she was forced to do it?
With a wink.
I agree with everything you said. My point in starting this thread was that if a girl wants to offer BBFS, it's her business. Likewise, it's solely her business whether to publish it, so without express permission from the girl to tell others, hobbyists hurt her business by publishing it in a discussion board, or in a review, and should STFU.
You're mainly preaching to the choir here.
Perhaps sending PMs to the people to the people who write the reviews might be a better way to go about this.
-- Modified on 3/20/2017 6:26:33 AM
It's really a mutual choice between the provider and client isn't it? Also, I think the providers expect you to post a review and they want a good one. However, I don't believe anyone should include bbfs in their reviews. I've seen non-kgirl providers who advertise no CIM. However, I assume YMMV. If you are allowed CIM, are you going to out that girl? It seems stupid and wrecks your relationship. That's my opinion.